Russia - threadbanned users in OP

zv2 · 18-08-2023 3:33pm

40 Cesars/Archers pounding those trenches in the south, for a month, should do a lot of good. Time for the west to shift gear.

johnnyskeleton · 18-08-2023 3:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994781#Comment_120994781

The most well known leftist who adopts the Kremlin line is Naom Chompsky. He was, at least until very recently, considered to be the opposite of a clown.

I'm pretty sure that it is not the case that he was just given a big bag of money and told to go out and spread the good word of Putin.

Instead, he is, as other posters have pointed out, ideologically opposed to the USA and to any military assistance abroad. He also needs to be seen to be outside of mainstream or conservative thinking. And he also, in a weird way, thinks that he is being compassionate for his fellow man by suggesting in a rather Utopian way, that if only there was peace there wouldn't be so many Ukrainians being killed at the moment.

These guys were saying the same thing about the invasion of Iraq and they had a point. Lots of people, including myself, agreed wholeheartedly that the USA was wrong in that instance. We believed that they were speaking from a position of high morality.

However, with Russia's invasion of Ukraine the tide has really gone out on these people. They are not high minded or moral. They are just contrarians who object to the established order because it appeals to a certain demographic and it gets them paid.

johnnyskeleton · 18-08-2023 3:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996193#Comment_120996193

There's a couple of things. First of all, I think there is a general tendency to exaggerate the usefulness of NATO supplied weapons and to underestimate the capability, ingenuity, tenancy and overall impressive nature of the Ukrainian resistance. In the early days of the war, Javelin missiles were useful to stop the first and last tanks in a convoy. But to get into the position to fire them was no mean feat, and the rest of the group was then destroyed by accurate artillery fire from regular Ukrainian artillery. The Javelin was important in this, but it was one factor of many. However, the narrative went out that the Javelin was responsible for holding up the Russians. This narrative flatters NATO countries, but it suits the purposes of Ukraine more because they can say "those weapons were great, give us more". It also suits the Russians, who can say "We would have won, but for those pesky NATO weapons". So there is an inbuilt tendency to exaggerate the benefits of NATO weapons, good and all as they are.

Second, it takes a long time to train fighter jets and their long term strategic benefits are limited. Jets are useful for precision strikes, but they don't win wars.

Third, NATO were never going to just give everything Ukraine wanted at once. They need to have a ladder of escalation. They also need to emphasise their ongoing support over the medium term rather than any suggestion that they will just dump a load of weapons in Ukraine and say "have at it". This is important because it demonstrates to the Russians that there are perils with the war dragging on. Far more important than any particular battle field victory.

Fourth, if you think back to Jan/Feb 2022, few would have predicted the level of support that would be given to Ukraine. Ukraine was not a Western European country. It was not an EU Member State. It was a poor and strange country in Eastern Europe, barely understood by most people in the West. The fact that it is now thought of as being effectively part of the "Collective West" and Russia is now a parriah nation demonstrates that there hasn't been appeasement, there has been a very significant response against Russia.

So while I agree with you that NATO countries could provide more weaponry more quickly, I don't think it is fair to blame them for not doing so, and I think that not enough credit is being given to the tenacious Ukrainians for fighting back against the Russians to date.

Dohnjoe · 18-08-2023 4:16pm

Indeed Chomsky is a good example of a reductionist who cherry-picks info to fit a narrative, his narrative, which "coincidentally" always aligns with his fringe world views. That's always the red flag.

The war exposed quite a number of people like this, individuals who happily parroted Kremlin propaganda for years because it aligned with their beliefs.

TheValeyard · 18-08-2023 4:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120987073#Comment_120987073

She made it.

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1692511682914836628

nacho libre · 18-08-2023 5:16pm

The troops that trained with UK Special forces back in the Uk look to be also making an impact in the south. They were trained in how to deal with the heavily fortified Russian defenses. Could we see something noteworthy happen in the south over the next week or two.

TheValeyard · 18-08-2023 5:19pm

More good news

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1692567246613196823

amandstu · 18-08-2023 5:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996627#Comment_120996627

Who are the Daily Kos.?

USA?Canada?

Fastpud · 18-08-2023 5:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996893#Comment_120996893

That seems too good to be true given the distances, and the reported progress to date

gw80 · 18-08-2023 5:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996921#Comment_120996921

Aren't you thread banned?

Fastpud · 18-08-2023 5:56pm

Egh no…..

why say that without looking at the thread ban list?

amandstu · 18-08-2023 6:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996893#Comment_120996893

Yes I read that but was just wondering who runs the Daily Kos.

ColemanY2K · 18-08-2023 6:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996893#Comment_120996893

Given what we know from OSINT accounts I fear "north of Tokmak" is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting here. I hope I'm wrong mind you.

zv2 · 18-08-2023 6:54pm

Ja Ruski

https://twitter.com/KorsasErik/status/1692592866822885554?s=20

fly_agaric · 18-08-2023 7:50pm

Saw this today.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/north-korean-missile-capable-striking-us-likely-cooperation-russia-rcna100450

The Hwasong-18 missile’s physical dimensions and its flight trajectory data appear “nearly identical” to those at of Russia’s Topol-M ICBM, says the report, authored by Theodore A. Postol, a professor emeritus of science, technology and national security policy at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. ...

The rocket is solid-fueled, making it harder for Western intelligence to detect than liquid-propellant ICBMs. The test last month, observed by North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, was the first successful launch of a solid-fueled ICBM. The test also demonstrated the Hwasong-18’s ability to deliver multiple thermonuclear warheads as far as Washington, the report said, and deploy decoy canister countermeasures to evade U.S. missile defenses. “The sudden appearance of these advanced capabilities is difficult to explain without cooperation from the Russian government and its scientists,” Postol wrote.

Not good if correct. Russias' leaders are desperate, would sell their souls for help with this invasion (if they had any!). The Soviet weapons/expertise left over from the Cold war is not safe in their hands IMO. It is a source of chaos, and a threat to the safety of the entire world. I doubt that China would be that pleased to see NKs missiles getting upgrades. Their "(unlimited) friend" is a bigger loose cannon than Kim Jong Un.

RGARDINR · 18-08-2023 8:54pm

Interesting read on skynews.

Screenshot_20230818_205132_com.android.chrome.jpg

Virgil° · 18-08-2023 8:54pm

Again I'd love it to be confirmed correct but I doubt Ukraine have leapt forward to operating near Tokmak overnight. That would mean a near complete collapse of Russian sources in the south. Seems like a stretch.

Wolf359f · 18-08-2023 8:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997763#Comment_120997763

You would be expecting Russian sources on telegram would be mentioning it also. Everything (reporting wise) has gone a little quiet, so I doubt there's been a big breakthrough. I'd love to be mistaken though.

Padre_Pio · 18-08-2023 10:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997759#Comment_120997759

Probably add another 100k for non-combatants also. That's just crazy.

RGARDINR · 18-08-2023 10:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120998186#Comment_120998186

I could sadly well imagine that number

Ramasun · 18-08-2023 11:05pm

I'm so proud Ireland is finally contributing in a meaningful way to AFU.

Ireland may have a very modest army but they train with the best and can train others.

SortingYouOut · 18-08-2023 11:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996499#Comment_120996499

I take it you've read his recent stuff then. Would be interested to hear how exactly he has parroted Kremlin propaganda, is there anything in particular you can share?

God forbid someone sees the grey for a change, has to be black or white.

Being an outspoken critic of his own country, but sure we know better. Must be a tankie, or Kremlin supporter.

Dohnjoe · 19-08-2023 1:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120998426#Comment_120998426

He doesn't see "grey", he sees the US as the same black/white villain in every scenario and conflict, personifying countries which is the part of the same reductionism that Wallace, Galloway et al use.

He shares a lot of the Kremlin's language and views towards Ukraine, allotting blame on NATO, even using Moscow's phrase "fight Russia to the last Ukrainian".

Just take this:

In his last interview with the British magazine "The New Statesman", the 94-year-old American analyst believes that Russia is acting restrained and moderate in Ukraine, comparing the actions with the American invasion of Iraq in 2003.

"When the US and Britain smashed Baghdad to pieces, did any foreign official go to Baghdad? No, because when the US and Britain start a war, they destroy everything: communication, transport, energy... everything that drives a society"

It's shocking stuff. I protested the Iraq war and followed it on a daily basis. The US didn't "smash Baghdad to pieces", they targeted certain infrastructure, for example energy distribution (which was easier to rebuild and replace) whilst not targeting transformers. I could write a short book on how utterly wrong that comparison is.

Vatnik soup sums up the linguist well:

https://twitter.com/P_Kallioniemi/status/1659119924596424706

mcmoustache · 19-08-2023 3:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994691#Comment_120994691

Traditionally, it has been the case that some lefties give a free pass to Russia and China when it comes to imperialism. Even now, you only need to look at Chomsky, Pilger, Waters and our own oddball lefties in Europe to see that it's still the case.

Even if right now the far right might have the strongest sympathies for Russia, there are still prominent voices on the left who see Russia's imperialism as some kind of reflexive action that can't be helped.

The main reason for that is that Russia used to target the left for obvious enough reasons but now they also target the right with propaganda and we have something of a horseshoe situation.

mcmoustache · 19-08-2023 3:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120998665#Comment_120998665

There are people who think that only people in the west have personal agency. They think that only western nations can be imperialist. If a large nation invades their smaller neighbour, it's bad when a western nation does it but it's just the way things are if the Russians or Chinese do it. It's as if the Chinese or Russians don't have any agency and just coast into invasions, as if they didn't have leaders with expansion on their minds.

Basically, imperialism, genocide and all that can be bad or neutral depending on who is doing it. That's why our national embarrassments who go off on Kremlin funded fact-finding missions think that Ukraine deserve being invaded just because they wanted EU membership and a NATO umbrella that the other Warsaw Pact countries like the Baltics got.

pixelburp · 19-08-2023 7:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120998718#Comment_120998718

It is the great irony of the Anti West narrative, who'd decry the hubris of imperialism while also dismissing and opining the removal of Ukrainian autonomy like Ukraine had no value of its own. They're not allowed it in the eyes of Chomsky etc and whatever decisions they made were the "wrong ones"; these tankies know better, with all the smug "Western" attitudes they'd claim to rail against.

I said it before, but with the noted exception of Hungary there's only a unified front against russian aggression east of the Danube and in the Baltic's; they know full well the dangers of Russian imperialism and have no interest in the language of the self-loathing, usually older lefties who think, as you say, that only NATO have the capacity for interference. Or that there's an equivalence between "our" inadequacies and Russia's.

I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct · 19-08-2023 8:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996499#Comment_120996499

This. Chomsky always stuck in my craw I couldn't put my finger on it, something hidden about him but thankfully the curtains were pulled on the likes of him. Roger Waters another one who was a hero of mine all my life really sickened me with his blind rhetoric.

EltonJohn69 · 19-08-2023 9:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120998882#Comment_120998882

Russel Brand appears on n my YouTube feed talking simile nonsense as Waters. A grifter/egomaniac.

seenitall · 19-08-2023 9:33am

I met a horrible specimen recently. Middle-aged, Italian. Raving against the NATO, thinking herself very knowledgeable probably as she rejected that anything wrong is happening in Iran, Iran is just a normal country where women enjoy perfect freedom to dress however they like, and NATO is of course evil personified. When challenged on that last one, and told that NATO is needed for European protection, she practically jumped three feet in the air like they do in cartoons: “protection from WHAT??”

To act like that in these times when we are seeing such awful war crimes committed en masse in a European country, is to be willfully blind, obstinate and vile.

My only satisfaction taken from that was that she was intending to go and live in Iran herself for a year. Happy travels. Bicth.

The geopolitics of nations stays the same through time to an astounding degree, I suppose because of the “geo”. The people in the west are further removed from the evils of Eastern imperialisms or expansionisms than eastern Europeans, so they simply can afford to care less, and the contrarians thrive and are free to equivocate anything. I myself am guilty of ignorance of, dunno, the situation in Nagorno-karabakh, but at least I don’t go around pretending that I know the first thing about it, and disgustingly slotting it into some contrarian narrative in my head which carries no resemblance to the factual situation whatsoever.

Rant/

TheValeyard · 19-08-2023 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996893#Comment_120996893

Seems to be gaining traction. Might explain some of the quiet on the UAF side last dew days

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1692820253170966726

Like what a couple of other posters also said, 'North' be 7K away or more.

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Comments