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Nurse Lucy Letby found guilty of murdering seven babies

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭dbas


    She likely has a personality disorder of some sort. Borderline personality disorder or something similar. I've no psychology training or anything, just my opinion.

    She's an actor, who got found out at trial in front of all the families. She's empty of pity and full of self pity.

    If she was still on a ward, she would still be killing babies whenever she wanted.

    The results of the enquiry ordered yesterday will make for grim reading



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    Yeah I suspect the attention was a big part of it. And power. Interesting nonetheless. And it’s long been known that the medical profession attracts certain types.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭dbas


    It's a great hiding place for these rare types.

    Instant respect and access to vulnerable potential victims.

    Thankfully they are very very rare



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,878 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Thankfully but it is sickening to read of the enormous damage these people cause and seem to get away with for years, eg Beverley Allitt & Shipman were also medical professionals that people trusted. It's hard to understand why the hospital management in this case ignored the reports from several of Lucys colleagues, if even one person was raising concerns it should have prompted action and investigations. Even reports of bullying would have a quicker response in every workplace these days. That management team did nothing for a number of years until 3 babies had died. Shame on them.

    Those poor families who have lost their children because of her, it's too awful to think of the trauma she has caused.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,497 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    ''Not sure what news articles you’re reading, but lots that I’ve read covered the medical evidence, Letyby’s handwritten notes (that included phrases such as “I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them” and “I am evil I did this”),''

    This looks damming, but if a person is blamed by senior staff, or hinted at for being at fault, then a depressed person would write such stuff when they too begin to blame themselves. ''"Overwhelming fear I panic I'll never have children or marry, I'll never have a family' and 'I don't deserve to live' and 'Why me?' 'I haven't done anything wrong and they have no evidence, so why have I had to hide away?' I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them????? I am evil I did this! , Kill me!!'' Depress people do this, when the enormity of what's being said about her sinks in, then in moments of despair, a person can write such things to themselves .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    The expert on BBC dismissed the notes as evidence of guilt

    Said they're evidence of a person distressed by the situation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,775 ✭✭✭donaghs


    I find it very hard to read too much about this. Just sickening. Ideally people would be screened out of jobs like this, but in reality that not always possible.

    is there at least any way to collate the spike in deaths and incidents around particular nurses/doctors?

    it’s probably even harder to report this when it’s a societal sacred cow like a hospital consultant doing the deeds. Like with dr neary and dr shine in our own Drogheda hospital - albeit they never actually killed anyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    I believe the screening is difficult

    2nd paragraph will happen

    As said on Newsnight these people are attracted to the work by the opportunity to kill

    They'll target other positions with vulnerable persons



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭dbas


    The management could have been tricked by her too and without the specific medical knowledge that the consultants had, they didn't see through it.

    9 months of evidence and around 100 hours of jury deliberation.

    They made the right decision



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭lmao10


    The clip of her coming out of the house in cuffs is a bit unsettling. She looks like shes in her true form as she walks out with a blank look on her face.

    What do these people get out of committing these types of crimes? It's just impossible to get into their head.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,497 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    The simple fact is, this is a very rare murder conviction, based on overwhelmig circumstantial evidence alone, and one of the longest such trials. Is it a safe conviction, considering there is so much doubt, and no hard evidence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭dbas


    Her version of that was that she was dragged from the house in a dressing gown.

    Always the persecuted victim



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Stats would have raised questions. You don't need medical knowledge which they also got from nurses and doctors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,453 ✭✭✭apache


    She will be kept apart from everyone else for her own protection. That's the reality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭dbas


    I'm just speculating as to why the managers were fooled and the consultants weren't.

    A manager spoke to Lucy Letby and her dad and then arranged mediation sessions between Letby and the hospital consultants. This woman had murdered babies at this stage and the consultants knew it. The managers either didn't care, or believed every word Letby said.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭dbas


    The results of this enquiry will likely shock the world, and procedures and accountability will change for the better as a result. Hopefully



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,931 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    manipulation would be a part of many complex disorders, shes probably a hell of a liar(pathological), i also suspect the severe lack of resources of the nhs has probably also lead us to this disturbing situation, i know of someone whos considering a similar career, they more than likely have a serious personality disorder, probably not as bad as letby, but.... im hoping our system is good enough to prevent this from happening....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,931 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭dbas




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Agreed. Why was her father at the meeting? That's unusual I would have thought?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,542 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Enough ghoulish podcasts as it is, some ghoul will build a profile and make money out of other people's misery.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    You're a drama queen with the posting

    The consultants suspected her



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭dbas


    No it isn't, but we're not a country of 60odd million people. They've had two cases of nurses killing babies since the 90's.

    Thankfully that's quite rare.

    I'm sure they have strict protocol to vet candidates for jobs though.

    In 2016 there was a detection system to stop people taking babies from the hospital. An alarm would go off, similar to bringing a security tagged item out of a shop. I bet they are well versed in what is possible in today's world.

    No advance warning of a person like Letby though



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    Nothing will change. You will always have people abusing positions because they can. She just gets more hatred because she killed babies.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭dbas


    She was in her mid 20's at the time.

    Can you imagine bringing your da to as meeting like that.

    Likely all part of her ploy. Playing the victim is second nature to her



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭dbas


    People will always abuse positions alright, for power or money. Something tangible that anyone could relate to.

    These guys did it to protect someone who killed babies that weighed as much as a bag of sugar



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,931 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...it actually is, many complex disorders have pathological lying as a part of their makeup, and yes, the percentage of the population having such disorders is extremely low, thankfully, or we d be fcuked, we simply wouldnt be able to have a functioning society if it was otherwise...

    ...again, it is possible to detect such disorders, at a relatively young age, many of these disorders actually take shape in the later teens/twenties, we clearly need to implement appropriate vetting of such disorders, yes not all will be detected, but....

    there has been links made to my own disorder for some serious crimes, it being detectable at a very young, early childhood, for most.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,308 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Thankfully this is a 1 in a billion x trillion incident. Such outcomes will be very very unlikely to happen again.

    The unfortunate 7 babies got no help, their families got no help. This scumbag deserves no help.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭dbas


    I hear ya. Enough of those already.

    This podcast is UK based though and they couldn't say anything that the jury hadn't heard. No speculation at all allowed or it could have ruined the case



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,931 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...the sad truth is, similar issues have actually happened in other health systems around the world, so.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭dbas


    The detection of those disorders comes down to opinion though sadly. They won't always be correct, and little anything can do if they detect a disorder in a child (in the context of Letby I mean)

    Can't discriminate someone for having a personality disorder. Plenty of good decent people out there with personality disorders getting through life as best they can.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    But her motivations will likewise make sense, even if they seem incredible to you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    The way I see that is, if I was actually innocent and being adjudged as guilty, I’d want to go up to the courtroom and protest the injustice. Her hiding away indicates her guilt. Maybe others don’t see it that way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,931 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    yea its a difficult one, cause theres some incredible people doing incredible things, including working in our health systems, with such disorders, but maybe we should be introducing widescale regular psychological check ups in our health workers, even the act may just help reduce the stress induced into our health care workers....its a difficult one...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭dbas


    Our health workers need more co workers and better funding, especially in child mental health. Waiting lists are an embarrassment at this stage.

    Psychological checks would be a good idea. Letbys ilk would easily scam through those check ups though, but we do need to look after our front line staff



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,348 ✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭dbas


    Sounds about right.

    It was also one of her last chances to exercise control over anyone outside prison walls.

    She's allowed to refuse to go to court so that's what she did.

    She could also have come clean and admitted what she did. Another thing she will never do.

    She controlled people for years with her innocent looks etc, and she probably thought she would be found innocent and be allowed back to work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    I made the same point

    Merely screening job applicants and changing procedures at hospital level means the problem appears somewhere else

    Ideally threats to society would be identified early before they kill.Probably.wont happen anytime soon as it's somewhat unrealistic



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,273 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I tried to avoid reading the accounts after the first time, but is the theory that she enjoyed the 'high' of saving babies? On the lines of the failed and actual firemen who start fires and are then coincidentally there to save people from the fire? They tend to have no care as to whether any people in the houses (or in her case, babies) die or not, it's sort of not important to them, the important thing is they are seen as the great saviour they are.

    Very odd that she continued when she knew well they were investigating her. I can see how she fooled the friend though, she seemed nicey nice and a bit child-like with her stuffed toys etc.. I can see how it would be difficult to comprehend that a friend like that was cruelly hurting and killing tiny babies at the same time.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭dbas


    Don't forget the 7 who survived. Some are left disabled for life



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,882 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Has to be a whole life term. No way could that ever be let out to live amongst society again. Way too risky.

    be it as a ‘60, ‘70, ‘80 or whatever year old…. Society deserves protection…. What she did was deliberate, calculated and evil, in the extreme…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭dbas


    I think there were a few things she enjoyed.

    The drama created when emergency happened on the wards

    The knowledge that she had secretly caused all this drama

    Getting validation from others on WhatsApp after these events. Playing the martyr.

    Then of course, 170 odd pieces of medical evidence found in her house. She got to look through all that at home.

    One mother stated she thought her baby was injured because she had said something to Letby the previous night



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭dbas




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    It's not the risk it's the notoriety that keeps them locked

    Home secretaries are not known for releasing here , too much negative publicity

    Myra Hindley was left to languish because of the notoriety



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,882 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    I think both risk and notoriety in this case. Releasing her wouldn’t be a vote getter I agree.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,240 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Probably be blaming themselves for the rest of their lives... Why didn't we know, why didn't we stop her?!

    So wrong that management of the trust did not act when concerns were raised..

    Life sentence not just for her, but all of them and the poor parents.



  • Registered Users Posts: 569 ✭✭✭Long Sean Silver


    she's been painted in the UK media as some kind of monster, some twisted, evil bunny boiler type.

    personally i dont buy this. imho the girl has some mental or personality issues, and should be in a mental institution and not a prison. she needs help not prison.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    The first thrill was playing God with human lives. “I can decide wether this baby lives or dies. I can cause this baby horrible suffering. I can destroy this babies parents, bring them horrific grief and trauma. Me. Little Lucy Letbie.

    And I’m so sweet and nice and quiet and innocent that no one will ever know”.

    Then there was all the high octane drama of a hospital emergency. The lights flashing and the shrieking alarms. The parents howling in pain. The other staff in uproar. Lucy in the middle of it all keeping her almost orgasmic euphoria tightly under wraps.

    It’s also mentioned that she would be looking to bring the doctor she had the hots for running to the unit.

    Sneaking home with the momentos she stole. Alone in her bedroom looking at them and reliving the high all over again.

    I hope someone can persuade her to tell the truth about what she was thinking or how she was feeling. It would help the grieving families to know.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    She murdered defenseless babies...I don't care if she has mental disorders.

    Mental hospital perhaps. She definitely won't be getting out of there.

    She needs to be locked up, wherever, for the rest of her life. I've no sympathy. Do all the research you want on the illness while they're away from the public.

    7 babies proven to be murdered? Give her help? I imagine more.

    If I get old and infirm I've lived a life, can ask questions, defend myself somewhat...no way sympathy for that murderer.



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