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Ire versus England - RTÉ 2 Saturday Aug 19th 17.30pm

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    #332
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 17,140 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I feel a bit for Steve Borthwick. He probably isn't up to it at test level, but the issues in this England team goes far beyond him.

    What Eddie Jones presided over since 2021 has been disastrous for English rugby. They finished 5th and 3rd in 21 and 22, but performances were getting worse all the time.

    Jones claimed he wanted his entire 15 to look comfortable on the ball and be able to play from anywhere. But all that led to was players looking confused as to what their role in the side was. Attack became stilted and discipline slipped.

    That rubbish about holding stuff back for the World Cup was exposed for the guff it clearly is.



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    #333
    sxt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭sxt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001113#Comment_121001113

    I'd agree with this. South Africa scored 50 points against Wales, a team that beat England comfortably the week before

    Ireland will never have a squad as deep as NZ /SA/France/England needed to win a World cup

    Southern hemisphere teams mojo is to peak for World cups. Ireland's remit is to peak every year and win



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    #334
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,571 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001709#Comment_121001709

    The english problems stem from the malaise in their league and the systems in place that are supposed to produce players.

    The players are just not coming through for them, their squad has barely anyone world class and in reality itoje is the closest to it where he doesnt even look like his former self, and there isnt anyone that has come through in the last 4 years the way that keenan, dorris, porter, jgp, hansen, beirne and a few other have come into the side.



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    #335
    Shehal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭Shehal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001723#Comment_121001723

    You do realise no-one is listening to you or taking you seriously? Guff like this is why.



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    #336
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,753 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001485#Comment_121001485

    I'd back almost any international wing to score from there. His theatrics were not actually necessary (though he deserves to do whatever he wants).



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    #337
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 17,140 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001745#Comment_121001745

    Half convinced that Sxt and Noc are the same person.



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    #338
    Shehal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭Shehal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001749#Comment_121001749

    At least they both have someone to talk to!



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    #339
    ersatz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,500 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Decent performance with a few caveats. I would worry a little about RB considering SAs defensive linespeed against Wales today. I imagine SA will be even more accurate when it comes to us in the WC and they are capable of strangling moves at birth with their speed. RB looked a bit ponderous and very predictable today. As ever you'd worry about his game being primed for a dominant pack and time on the ball. His kicking off the tee wasn't up to the mark either. The skills and vision of our back three made our backs look really good today and saved a lot of half back blushes. Maybe blowing off cobwebs but seeing the scores put on England and Wales by other top teams begs the question. That said Ireland's game is premised on being hard to score against and England had very little joy in that department today.



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    #340
    sxt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭sxt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001745#Comment_121001745

    Which part is guff? That Ireland won't have the resources as NZ, SA, FR, EN to win a world cup?



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    #341
    Shehal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭Shehal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001767#Comment_121001767

    All of it ;)


    Btw I'm very sorry if I have you the impression that this was some sort of discussion, it's not/



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    #342
    MaddChris
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭MaddChris


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001723#Comment_121001723

    You obviously didn't watch that Wales game then, it was no more a Welsh them then if it was Ospreys v South Africa, barely a starting Welsh XV to be seen verses a stacked SA side.

    Also maybe don't quote someone trying the make a point about the Ireland team as a whole based on them watching 40 minutes of rugby where most of the the lads haven't played for 89 days 😉



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    #343
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 17,140 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001744#Comment_121001744

    I agree that the problems at club level are affecting the test side. The Premiership isn't a top quality league at the minute. And the financial issues are a a concern for every player in the league.

    But they should still be able to cobble together a decent 23. Going back to Vunipola and Sinkler is a huge concern.



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    #344
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    A better outcome than I anticipated. Lineout a concern but we've turned that around quickly enough before.

    Pack a solid 7 / 10.

    Positioning between back 5 in the final 30 was interesting with Beirne and Prendergasts versatility playing a part. Big Joe had a lovely cameo - doing a lot of the good stuff he has been doing, without the discipline issues.

    JGP / Byrne worked nicely from the off but you'd expect halves who have trained and played as extensively should be settled from the outset. Saw a lot of criticism of Byrne in particular and frankly I'd say he furthered his case as backup. Nothing special, but we gave England absolutely no platform and kept them pinned and under pressure. England had 3 points when Ross Byrne went off with his two try assists.

    Centres went fine in a pretty one dimension attacking platform. All the talk will be Earl's try but that was some pass from Aki (possibly a hint forward).

    Back 3 look excellent and it's rare for Ireland but we have one of the best back three units going into the tournament.

    Bench added impact, would have been nice if we were a bit more ruthless but not at the cost of injuries and hopefully none of the knocks today are consequential.

    England are in real trouble. They didn't threaten Ireland at all and it was an unforced error that gifted them their score. They've very little urgency, don't really threaten ball in hand and if they're going to kick that much they really need to work on their chase and regather.

    The farce of the World Cup draw is deepening every week.



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    #345
    Rugbymad2020
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭Rugbymad2020


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001780#Comment_121001780

    Stacked SA side,u talking out ur arse.no Am,eben,look,pollard,faf,



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    #346
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001709#Comment_121001709

    At full time literally my first thought was that England have plenty of test level talent but just not a test level coach.



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    #347
    sxt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭sxt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001779#Comment_121001779

    It's not controversial to say that NZ, SA, FR, EN have better resources to win a world cup. Because it's a fact. They've all won world cups..



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    #348
    StevenToast
    Registered Users Posts: 3,546 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001822#Comment_121001822

    France have never won...

    Spoofer

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



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    #349
    MaddChris
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭MaddChris


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001800#Comment_121001800

    le Roux, Kriel, de Alende, Kolbe, Steph du Toit, Kolisi, Snyman, Marx, Kitshoff

    Bench:Mostert,Vermeulen,Willemse

    You're right, all mediocre back-benchers



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    #350
    sxt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭sxt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001831#Comment_121001831

    My bad. France were literally robbed of a world cup. Some of the most embarrassing officiating in world cup history. Do you agree?



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    #351
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,571 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001783#Comment_121001783

    Its worse than billy and sinkler.

    Dan coles is still there. Care and youngs are whats left for playing 9 and you wouldnt say vanporterfelt is a massive loss.

    There are to many members of that english side that have way way way too much milage on the clock. The likes of courtney lawes, jamie george, tuilagi are elderly veterans and they are supposed to be carrying this side.

    The currys are underhill are long term injury problems and probably being missed a massive amount, sam simmonds never really got a look in and didnt do much when he did, the likes of him and dombrandt were big fish in a small pond.

    Dombrandt will probably have to come in once billy gets suspended and its possibly now that borthwick will have to go cap in hand to zack mercer who hasnt been part of their training recently.

    Marcus smidth is the most exciting player to come through for them and hes not anywhere near established.

    Steward at 15 is very average but nobody is putting him under pressure for his place.

    If i was an english fan i would be seriously tempering my ambitions for the next few seasons because a rebuild is needed and the resources dont look to be there.



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    #352
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,571 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001819#Comment_121001819

    Eddie jones is a test level coach and they didnt do much under him.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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    #353
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,753 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001723#Comment_121001723

    South Africa scored 50 against a Wales 3rd string team. A Wales team that lost to (briefly) 12 man England the week before



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    #354
    StevenToast
    Registered Users Posts: 3,546 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001854#Comment_121001854

    In 2011, France were robbed in that final v NZ.

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



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    #355
    sxt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭sxt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001861#Comment_121001861

    Do you think Ireland will ever have a squad as deep as NZ /SA/France/England needed to win a World cup ...


    I don't know who will win the world cup but it's almost certainly going to be NZ, SA, FR, AU, EN. These are the only countries to have competed in finals. That isn't a conicidence

    They have bigger resources and more players numbers etc



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    #356
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,753 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001871#Comment_121001871

    France have never won a world cup and the English team in 03 was famously called Dad's Army



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    #357
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 17,140 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Thinking back on the game, I thought VDF had yet another quality game. Carried strongly and put players through gaps with excellent passing. His level hasn't dipped at all in three years. Best 7 in the world imo.



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    #358
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,571 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    I said it months back and il say it again.

    We should not be going into the SA game fully Loaded and we should not be playing that game like our lives depend on it, that game wont decide who wins the world cup, but a load of injurys and it could decide that we dont win the world cup.

    There are 4 fixtures that we must win back to back in October to lift the trophy, the group game against SA is not one of them.

    If anyone disagrees fine, but losing to their biggest rivals in the group stages at RWC 2019 didnt do SA any harm.



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    #359
    sxt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭sxt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001880#Comment_121001880

    Do you think Ireland have as deep a squad as NZ , SA, FR in this world cup?



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    #360
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,753 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001889#Comment_121001889

    Cause they played Japan in the QF...



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    #361
    Shehal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭Shehal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001889#Comment_121001889

    If we go into that game with this mindset then we WILL get injuries.



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