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Anyone exit Suckler system??

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    #152
    jfh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,285 ✭✭✭jfh


    all valid points tanko, idea is to rear 15 dairy calves and buy in another 25-30 weanlings and sell those as strong stores within two months of finishing .finish the friesans myself .



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    #153
    farawaygrass
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭farawaygrass


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120864017#Comment_120864017

    Nothing nicer than watching a field of cows and their calves on these summer evenings. I’m the same as you. Was getting out the last few years but always folded around mid June and let out a bull. I have finally broke the spell this year though, bull is sold and cows are running with the cattle. All the rain we had over the weekend gave me a bit of a reality check too!



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    #154
    charolais0153
    Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120864355#Comment_120864355

    Selling within 2 months of finishing probably worst time to sell ?



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    #155
    tanko
    Registered Users Posts: 9,267 ✭✭✭tanko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120864610#Comment_120864610

    A neighbour of mine got €3.05/kg for 27 month old bullocks either side of 700kgs last week, would he have been better off finishing them himself, I doubt it.



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    #156
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 6,139 ✭✭✭emaherx


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120864017#Comment_120864017

    I'm in the same situation at the moment, will probably miss the sucklers but looking forward to trying something new.



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    #157
    Packrat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Packrat


    I've about 20 sucklers plus following cattle and the planner is at me to get rid of them and half the sheep. I've 2.4 times the stock I need for the grants.

    It would probably improve my bottom line to be honest as well as the workload but the whole place would go wild.

    Can't have that.

    It's fairly depressing to be honest that this is what it's come to - conservation grazing.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



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    #158
    charolais0153
    Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120864628#Comment_120864628

    Wouldn’t be much in it. Good money. Helps your near the north too. Them boys fairly put a floor on heavy cattle and cows



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    #159
    DBK1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,215 ✭✭✭DBK1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120864628#Comment_120864628

    Wouldn’t be much in it but if they’re R+ or U grade then at that weight for their age they should easily kill out 60-62% of their mart weight.

    That’d leave a factory price of €4.90-€5.10 to be the same. Base price last week was €4.90, with QA and grading they’d have made €5.16-€5.24, or around €80 per head more.

    If he’s not QA’d or they’ll grade less than an r grade he made the right move. If they’re U grades and he’s QA’d he’d have been better off in the factory.



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    #160
    Finty Lemon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120864680#Comment_120864680

    Changed away from suckling nearly 3 years ago. Best move I ever made on the farm.

    It was a difficult decision for sure, but when I was looking back on old photos and other stuff from the farm at the time, it reminded me that the sucklers only started here in the early to mid-90s anyway. They were part of the farm for less than 30 years which made it an easier call to sell in a way.

    Sold my soul to rear AA/Aubrac and some HE cross stock. Have learned a lot in the last 3 seasons. Much better way of working now and for a 3 generation part time farm the labour and safety are much better than with the cows. Whatever system you choose, get real world information from a successful farm as early in the process as possible. Finding that source is tricky- the best farmers are not the ones I thought they were.



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    #161
    JohnChadwick
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭JohnChadwick


    Went the organic route with my Sucklers 5 years ago. My system is profitable but only have around 30 cows now on 40 hectares. Have to keep them moving quickly this time of year to keep grass down. Consistently getting an average of €1k for the 30 angus yearlings I sell after 12 months. Put nothing into them.

    Considering reducing to 10-15 Sucklers now (enough to meet SCEP payments) and carry the bullocks/heifers on an extra year to 24 months. Will need a bit of management with a bull. Stay in organic is that subsidy payment is nearly 12k. Still very lightly stocked but buying in additional organic stock is expensive and you have the potential for tb etc.

    The only other option I see is leave organic, get rid of all Sucklers and buy in calves.



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    #162
    Siamsa Sessions
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120864750#Comment_120864750

    I’ve 30 calves and 35 stores on 30 acres here and I wonder some days about cutting back and becoming a 7-month man.

    But I don’t know if that kind of half-farming would work either. Would hedges start to grow out on the electric fence, water troughs leak and aren’t fixed, nettles and docks take over fields, etc.

    In my view, you’d have to really not care in that situation. Look in over the ditch at them once a week and then head off again.

    But I could see how lads would be tempted when you’re doing everything fairly right and there’s still little or nothing out of it.

    I don’t think any of us are doing it for the money (you couldn’t) so there has to be something else to it. If sucklers are manageable for you and you like working with them and seeing them in the field at this time of year, then I’d say don’t pack them in - unless they’re costing you too much money to keep!

    In that case, you could consider greyhounds or horses 😀

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



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    #163
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,656 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120865290#Comment_120865290

    It seems it's very hard to buy in organic stock. I stay doing it the way you are doing it. Even reducing cows and carrying stock to finish will hardly leave you a better margin

    Biggest problem finishing is you are tied to a certain date into the factory 4-6 months in advance, and no competition on price. Maybe lok at a small but of tillage to produce your own feed

    Just as a side note in today's FI

    https://m.independent.ie/farming/news/suckler-farmers-asking-why-there-is-no-exit-scheme-for-them-says-mcconalogue/a1954991807.html

    it seems individual farmers are putting pressure on again about a suckler exit package after the IFA,Macra, ICSA and BP all shafting them on the alter of correctness

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #164
    Packrat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Packrat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120865302#Comment_120865302

    Greyhounds or horses are two animals which will never set foot here anyway.

    I don't enjoy putting out bales in the winter or watching heifers from calving but the alternative is looking at scrawny black and white horrors of things which I won't do either.

    Either I keep the traditions of hill sheep and cows or I stop it altogether and throw in the towel just as the payments are starting to make sense.

    I'm nearly 50 and I'll be fine one way or the other but I'd like one of my children to have options whatever they do with it.

    Exit schemes and only dry cattle around for a few years, - then the skills are gone and they couldn't farm it even if it made sense or they wanted a hobby.

    Smaller numbers of the same thing I think, and rare breed bullocks to eat down any summer excess grass.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



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    #165
    Siamsa Sessions
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    From what's been leaked to the media so far, the Dept don't seem interested in any exit scheme. The low payments suggested per cow and the restrictions on what the farmer and the farm can do make it a poor proposition. If the Dept were serious about it, they'd make it much more attractive.

    But we're only getting a sense of what the Dept think thru the farm media. And they don't want an exit scheme either so they could be playing down whatever kites the Dept are flying.

    I don't see any problem with an exit scheme, in sucklers or dairy. It might suit some lads, so leave them take it. No one will be forced to take it. The reduction in margins and changes to nitrates are forcing people out more than any voluntary exit scheme.

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



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    #166
    minerleague
    Registered Users Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭minerleague


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120865302#Comment_120865302

    Not sure if you meant cutting back equates to "not caring" but could be taken up as such from quick reading. Have sucklers here and have cut back and believe financially I'm no worse off. In some ways it's actually harder to farm without fallback of fertilizer and extending grazing season to reduce amounts of silage to be made and slurry to be spread.



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    #167
    Siamsa Sessions
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120865920#Comment_120865920

    No, didn't mean that at all.

    My point was that it can be hard to manage if the stock numbers are not someway matched to the farm. I'm stocked about right for the type of ground I have and the paddocks/roadways I've set up. But when I had sheep a few years ago, I found it much harder to manage grass when there were less mouths to feed.

    Things didn't change here just because I got rid of the sheep and bought more cattle, but I think it's about getting to a pace that suits the farm, the animals, and the farmer. We're all looking for that Goldilocks situation: not over-stocked, not under-stocked, but just right.

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



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    #168
    Hard Knocks
    Registered Users Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866130#Comment_120866130

    To add to your point, last year was dry and we could have ran an additional 5 cows and calves. This year the ground is swimming and we’re just right. Trying to keep the balance



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    #169
    Finty Lemon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120865899#Comment_120865899

    The Dept have realised that they do not need a suckler exit scheme. Numbers are falling by about 4% per year (40,000 cows) anyway, why would they pay for it? In the big beef cow counties, the changes are accelerating. Clare down 3000, Galway down 4000, Mayo down 4000 in 1 year.

    The farm orgs were seriously misguided to resist the prospect of a suckler scheme- it would have been massively popular. When it comes in for the dairy lads, which it will, then the farm orgs will immediately change their tune.



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    #170
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,656 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I think the Department is quite interested in a suckler reduction scheme. However I'll taught out opposition by some farm organisation's, processors and the FJ put the Department in the situation where it could not push forward with the process.

    The costings would have been minimal. 100 million a year for three years would have seen 250k suckler cows culled.

    This money could have been used by these farmers to develop other systems. The risk to calf exports is again bringing this to a head. While there is an exit from cows it's may mostly be farmers taking up organics and similar schemes. The Department's fear I imagine is this will stagnate and numbers will stabilise at 600+k.

    300 million is small money to reduce the carbon footprint by 250 k cows and make room for calves and forestry

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #171
    Jimmy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭Jimmy2020


    50hx what system did u change too if you don't mind me asking? I'm considering changing from suckler to dry stock the reason being the winters are getting longer and the seasons are changing big time, I also have a young family and don't want them to be at this farming craic.

    I'm clueless about dry stock, was thinking of bullocks and sell at mart or something. Plant the wettest field with agroforestry and reduce numbers to make things a bit easier for myself. If it all goes tits up I tired and can always go back to suckler



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    #172
    50HX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭50HX


    Haven't settled on a system yet, will keep this years weanlings & still have some stores to follow thru over the winter

    Cows will be fattened & mainly gone by xmas(waiting on accountant advice on this)

    I'd like my lads involved in farming while they are young, they're own choice then later on

    Wintering costs with sucklers are a killer for me....lighter stock would reduce my winter by 4-6 weeks min

    It won't be bucket rearing calves anyway



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    #173
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,656 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993112#Comment_120993112

    Within 2-4 years I expect there will be no need to bucket feed calves.......the dairy farmers will be doing it for us

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #174
    50HX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭50HX


    I agree bass, v labour intensive & not an option for me, regardless I'd rather pay for animal that was half reared rather than 4weeks old...input cost are prohibitive anyway



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    #175
    Jimmy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭Jimmy2020


    I got a dig from a cow going to calf last year and when I got my breath back I said to myself there has to be easier ways than this. So considering dry stock big time.

    Calf this yrs cows and get rid of them all next August or September.

    Buy a few bullocks and keep them over winter and out the field with them in spring hopefully.

    No calves they are too much work and our calves this year are a bit mental ( and pure stupid) when they are in, you would swear they are bet every day the way they go on. I wouldn't mind I don't even use a stick.



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    #176
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,656 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993138#Comment_120993138

    Within a couple of years it will be 6-8 weeks. Not going there yet myself. Summer to summer finishing and will stay at it but saw some real value in reared/runner calves at the marts this week

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #177
    Anto_Meath
    Registered Users Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    Any one who bought cattle this spring is loosing money big time at the minute. At least with your own reared sucklers you don't notice loosing the money as bad when you are sell the....



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    #178
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,656 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993294#Comment_120993294

    It's the first year in about five years( more or else since the strike) that summer graziers did not make money.finishing cattle they are after 4-5 great years.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #179
    Anto_Meath
    Registered Users Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    @Bass Reeves they gave this spring what they got for cattle last back end. A lot of them are feeling very sore at at the minute. There was never a fortune to be made out of summer grazing, most were just doing it to activate their single farm payment & were happy if they held on to that at the end. The only way to make money at the minute is if you take the animal from calf to the hook. But there is a good bit of work in that and it's a two year plus investment.



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    #180
    Count Mondego
    Registered Users Posts: 965 ✭✭✭Count Mondego


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993087#Comment_120993087

    I've gone down this route over the past few years and I'm fairly happy with the decision. I have reduced suckler numbers over the past few years and had none calving this year. I'm buying weanlings in the mart in Oct/Nov and keeping them to finish at 30-36 months off grass. It requires ploughing money back into the farm to increase your purchase numbers but that will level out this year. Up to buying in 50 a year but might need to bring that up to 60 to keep on top of grass. Yearlings eat f$ck all really compared to cows so it takes a while to get the balance right again.

    It's been a dream not calving cows or dealing with calves all summer. The odd bit of pneumonia when buying and the odd foot rot case in summer is all you'll have. This really suits a lad working and if anything I'll start making a few more quid. The drop in factory prices for me selling in the next few weeks will be offset against the cheaper weanlings prices that I'll be buying in. You need to know what your doing in the mart to buy right but otherwise no steep learning curve.



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    #181
    leoch
    Registered Users Posts: 906 ✭✭✭leoch


    Do u do all the buying urself and the marts and dealers are hard to watch if u get to know some of them u might get away an odd time



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