What whisk(e)y are we drinking? (Part 2)

Black Sheep · 19-08-2023 8:24pm

Toured Ardara distillery, lots of samples had.

Slick set up, I recommend visiting, and intrigued that their single malt (and pot still?) will reportedly be as peated as a middle of the road Islay whisky. Genuinely excited to try it.

I love it when a new Irish distillery actually distils their own whisky and brings it to the market, such a novel idea.

Came away with a Midnight Silkie, opted for the regular 46% abv. Sourced, but still well executed, and wanted to support them.

Electric Nitwit · 20-08-2023 12:44am

Finally made it to Dublin Distilled tonight, where the old Dingle bar was as part of the porterhouse opposite Trinity. Very nice set up, I'd recommend it

I was fairly well lubricated after the rugby though, so I didn't venture too far off the beaten track. A Dingle single malt was very nice, I found a Redbreast Lustau a bit disappointing though.

As I write this, I forgot they usually have a special at cost price. They weren't forthcoming with this, next time...

Kepler21 · 21-08-2023 10:49am

With all the discussions about adding water, any opinions on whiskey stones? I like them for the cooling effect, but can never shake the feeling that I'm leaving too much whiskey on the surface of the stones 😀

The Nal · 21-08-2023 10:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006233#Comment_121006233

Found a bag in the freezer last week and binned them. Never used them.

kuang1 · 21-08-2023 11:19am

I use mine! Fairly regularly too. Think they're great.

the beer revolu · 21-08-2023 11:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006233#Comment_121006233

Give them a suck!

The Nal · 21-08-2023 11:37am

All the high spots from bourbon barrel ageing - vanilla, creamy caramel, hint of spice.

adaminho · 21-08-2023 12:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006443#Comment_121006443

Had it at a tasting 2 weeks ago. It was a great tasting as the lads are very upfront about where their liquid comes from and don't try to hide anything.

the beer revolu · 21-08-2023 12:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006443#Comment_121006443

I think at a tasting, I preferred the 14 YO.

Insect Overlord · 21-08-2023 8:24pm

Is it just my phone, or does that photo make it look like an 8 foot tall bottle of whiskey? 😁

Black Sheep · 22-08-2023 9:03am

I am not hugely au fait with distilling but I think when I did the tour they said this was made on their gin still in the early days. 3 or 5 years old now? I'm not sure.

Beautiful packaging. 300 is a lot, arguably, but at the same time I feel there is something tangible here in comparison with other distilleries selling sourced whiskies that are priced at 120 plus- albeit those are for older age statements. I think people with an interest in this distillery or Donegal connection might be more interested. I'm on the fence about whether to enter.

Beagslife · 22-08-2023 9:06am

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/sliabh-liag-distillery_thelegendarysilkieirishwhiskey-discoveririshwhiskey-ugcPost-7099442348043972614-QFFa?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

Electric Nitwit · 22-08-2023 9:15am

Wouldn't be paying for that myself, but I'm sure it'll sell well. I'm excited that they're finally releasing their own make though, in a couple of years they should (hopefully) have some really interesting stuff as standard

the beer revolu · 22-08-2023 10:25am

In all those posts, I can't see what size the bottle is.

I'm not sure I agree with giving out a sample with the whisky. It just encourages people to not open the bottle.

I like the idea that people must make the choice between tasting the whiskey or collecting it. This allows people to have their cake and eat it, so to speak.

Having said that, it's a lovely looking package and I've really liked everything they've done so far.

I'd happily take a present of one, (and open it😉)

Beanstalk · 23-08-2023 8:42am

I'm a big fan of what Sliabh Liag are doing and what they stand for in terms of peat. I love the Silkie releases. I'm a wee bit alarmed at the inaugural release price no matter how fancy it is, and I really hope their own distillate is released at a reasonable price, or I'll be so bloody disappointed! Below 45/50 quid would be a good start.

What's with the opaque tuath glass lol. Hiding the colour?

the beer revolu · 23-08-2023 9:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121015027#Comment_121015027

There's only 100 bottles of this.

I don't think the price is indicative of what price their general releases will be.

janiejones · 23-08-2023 9:53am

Powerscourt releasing their own Fercullen single malt with almost no fanfare at 55euro was nice. And 6,000 bottles. I'm sure they'll release collectibles at higher prices as well but it's nice to be able to afford to buy in and support

Black Sheep · 23-08-2023 4:14pm

I can't imagine that an independent distiller in Ireland could bring a new whisky to the market in Ireland at under 45 euro. I also query whether there's an implication for your brand if you go too low with the price, if you're saying you're an independently owned craft outfit, and want to attract a particular share of the market.

Ferncullen doing it at 55 euro is ballsy enough, I wouldn't have thought that was do-able either, in the current climate.

It's pure speculation, but if I was to guess the pricing of Ardara's first main line release I'd say 60-80 euro. I believe it will be a 5 year old.

I presume single malt although they're doing pot still as well, will they coincide like they do at Dingle?

The distillery will have its releases, but bear in mind there are people who purchased casks and will have the option to release at the same time (They're not allowed to go before the distillery). I know of one single malt cask owner who's going to do the final 2 years of the 5 in a port finish. So there might be some variations knocking around.

Beanstalk · 24-08-2023 9:41am

I'm just saying Id be disappointed, as a buyer and someone following them closely and who also supports them, if they released a core range 5 year old at 80 quid, thats not cask strength. And I know the inaugral release isn't indicative of future prices, I'm just pointing out that 100 bottles or not, its only a wee quarter cask, and €300 a bottle sets alarm bells off in my head because its not about drinking the product from the outset. 30 grand like not including costs? come on. 3 year old whiskey. Very few people are going to open that. Especially now they've given a taster. Encourage people to drink your product, not collect it and sell it at auction. Make whiskey affordable locally. Charge a fair price. Forgot about implications on brand for low price, good honest presentation backed up by quality spirit will make up that shortfall. We have 100s of reviews at our fingertips now with phones, we don't have to go by the 'if its expensive it must be a premium product anymore'.

Maybe you're gong by Dingle batch releases. Ive tried some of them. They're too young, too nippy, too expensive. And unsuprisingly sold a lot on the secondary market.

Crolly distillery are another one I'm keen to tase and see what they release. But straight off the bat, their sourced whiskey is 80 quid a bottle. like, why? Two of them are decent but not anywhere near similar priced products, one just tastes like oak, and not in a pleasant way. I wouldn't buy a bottle because I know there's better value out there. A friend got a bottle. He says its grand but just noticed that the box was really thin and flimsy, didn't keep it shape, and the label is all rippled and stuff.

I'm really delighted about the Irish whiskey boom, but almost everything is overpriced. There's a lot more factored in the price than production cost too sadly. And here, I don't be moaning like everyone all the time and I don't mean to be negative, but this pricing isn't sustainable. Look at what whats happening the breweries. Some distillery is going to cop that value for money wins out in the end, espeically over an increasingly educated market audience.

Edit: this could all be moot and they could be pure class and release a peated powerhouse for 50ish quid in a couple of years time lol

runningonwhiskey90 · 24-08-2023 11:33am

Just to add to the conversation on the 300euro price tag - the bottle/decanter is 225euro on its own. So the 60 - 80 mark is probably not far off.

Its a shame they didn't stick with the glass below as well, the Tuath looks good but I find it shocking for nosing whiskey - I even spotted some ppl at whiskeylive with there own glencairn glass which says alot.

Achill Island Distillery have releasing there own spirit for 50 quid whish isn't too bad all things considered - its a small batch release of only 400 bottles and sitting on the shelves compared to other distilleries so I don't think price really matters compared to marketing these days.

https://whiskeycraft.ie/collections/decanters-glassware/products/connoisseur-decanter

Beanstalk · 24-08-2023 11:57am

wow. crazy that its that expensive. Minus VAT and buying in bulk would bring the cost down a bit I'm sure but still, who is the product for? Its out of reach of most punters. Anyway, the whiskey will speak for iteslf when we eventually get our hands on it. I like that they've double distilled too, just because made in Ireland doesn't mean you have to triple distill it.

I agree about the tuath i don't use it becuase of the way it inhibits proper nosing.

Black Sheep · 24-08-2023 5:56pm

This lottery release probably won't be reflective of the core pricing at all. I think it's priced to reflect the one-off and collectable nature of it. 300 is a lot but I don't think this is like the Drumshambo inaugural release which is still available years later.

If you consider Crolly are selling sourced whisky at 110-130 at the moment I actually think in some ways that's worse pricing than charging 300 for something that is a rarer and more interesting.

Based on sourced cask strength Silkies being sold by Ardara / Sliabh Liag for around 90 at the moment, if they released their own product at cask strength ... Well, I think that's highly unlikely it would be at the same price.

No-one knows what they'll charge for a regular ABV 5 year old, that might be 46%.

At the end of the day you think it should be a value / affordable product, but what I'd say is indie distillers have smaller scale, higher costs and probably shouldnt try and compete with the giants.

It might not even be a matter of choice. I actually don't think they could do a sub 45 euro 5 year old, maybe I'm wrong but I reckon their margins would be slim and they're not a big distillery where volume could compensate.

The under 45 euro side of the market is dominated by the big companies who can always have Black Barrell or Three Swallows on discount in a supermarket.

I suppose as well that considering Ardara will be heavily peated, a lot of the folks who buy value whisky might not really want that, it's more niche.

I'm just a punter, cann't claim to be a distilling insider or MBA, but my common sense tells me they should price a little higher, and especially if their branding leans into their being independent, unusual and a bit crafty.

The other thing I'd say about price and value is its individual. I consider many 60-80 whiskies to be great value. Its relative to what people have to spend, who they want to support, and what kind of whisky is their "everyday" or value whisky.

I personally think Dingle, Drumshambo and others have been disappointing in terms of their early output, but I think the sub 100 euro range (certainly sub 80) range is OK in Ireland considering contemporary costs for an independent! Wages, insurance, energy costs... All increasing. And everything ends up costing more for an indie who has to do a smaller scale.

Like with a pint, I sometimes feel people pick what they think whisky should cost based on what the price was when it suited them, but theres a reluctance to acknowledge maybe there are reasons things cost what they cost that are not necessarily price gouging.

Beanstalk · 24-08-2023 10:43pm

It's good to hear your perspective on it. You're a lot more measured than me! I'm too disillusioned with value for money at the minute.

I remember you saying you got the Midnight Silkie. I love it. And the Dark. But I saw a shelf full of Red Silkie in an off licence for £40 and was wondering had you or anyone else tried it and what yous thought of it?

I thought I might get a bottle for a wee holiday weekend soon when I'm staying by a beach in Donegal

Black Sheep · 25-08-2023 7:37am

Yes, I dont think anyone is objectively right or wrong in this, perspectives will vary.

I was also thinking after I posted that I suppose Teeling have kept the price of their small batch down under 45, and they're independent. But that's a blend, and their single malt is 55, like Ferncullen.

(Have to be honest - I think the small batch needs a rework, also, I never liked it and I think it's billed as a mixing / cocktail whisky, which is often a bit of a red flag if you like sipping)

The Red Silkie with the rioja finish is one I liked... I thought it was well-done, but it's been several years since I had it.

If you are up in Donegal you should definitely visit the Ardara distillery if you have a chance, you get to taste a little bit of the new make. Nancy's bar in the town also have some whisky (is it whisky yet? Maybe not quite yet) siphoned out of their family cask that they might give a taste of.

Electric Nitwit · 25-08-2023 7:54am

I bought the red for my dad as he's from Donegal. Didn't get to try it myself but he said it was very nice.

Originally it was sold out, so I presume this is a new batch...? May not be quite the same, I guess

€40 seems a good price, I'd jump at that (For example, still €52 in the CWS)

Electric Nitwit · 25-08-2023 7:54am

I bought the red for my dad as he's from Donegal. Didn't get to try it myself but he said it was very nice.

Originally it was sold out, so I presume this is a new batch...? May not be quite the same, I guess

€40 seems a good price, I'd jump at that (For example, still €52 in the CWS)

ZV Yoda · 25-08-2023 10:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019943#Comment_121019943

This a great post.

The reality is that the price of a bottle is (at best) only a vague indicator of quality. There's so much hype and marketing shite spouted about whiskey these days. Some of the pricing on the newer releases is stupid. Limited releases just for the sake of it. No different to Apple limiting the supply of each new version of iPhone simply to create hype and inflate pricing. It doesn't make the phone / whiskey any better, it's just a marketing tool to inflate prices.

It's great that we have so much choice these days, but there's a lot of very average stuff out there that's way overpriced.

dav45 · 25-08-2023 10:45am

Anybody tried Scarlet here?

the beer revolu · 25-08-2023 11:08am

"At the end of the day you think it should be a value / affordable product, but what I'd say is indie distillers have smaller scale, higher costs and probably shouldnt try and compete with the giants."

^^^^^

This all day long!

Small independent distillers HAVE to make money. If they aren't making money, they are, literally, going out of business.

I find it interesting that consumers have such strong feelings about the price that they feel certain whiskies "should" cost! If a product doesn't represent value to you - don't buy it. It really is that simple.

If a distillery can sell all of its product at x price, then that is the correct price (assuming it is profitable). Why would it instead sell it at x/3 because some people are angry about the price compared to a multinational's product?

An indie trying to bang out €50 whiskey won't last long without major investment and constant expansion.

It's funny that no one seems to mind distilleries banging out €40 - €50 bottles of gin which can be made in a day but get so upset at whiskey costs. Bearing in mind that grain must be mashed, fermented, distilled (twice or three times), transfered to barrels, stored for 3+ years, extracted, proofed and filtered before bottling!

Beanstalk · 25-08-2023 2:26pm

Ok, I'm sure theres an element of that audience out there. i'm not sure I'm one of the people you're referring to though. Its not so simple that its about what I feel a whiskey "should" cost. Its about what I'm willing to pay what is offered to me, how I perceive the value of that offering, and what I can afford. Its also about knowing from my own experience what else can I get for the same price relative to quality and value.

As an enthusiast, I represent a very small market of people who are buying whiskey, so my opinions don't really matter in the long run. But still, to me impressions are everything. If i see a bottle of whiskey from a new distillery, that doesn't say its sourced, that is 40% abv, that harps on about the farm spring and some local eccentric character and has absolutely no information about whats in the bottle, I'm not gonna buy it. I'm definitely not going to stand there and say to myself 'ah but they're an independant distillery and they're trying their best and sure I'll fork out my hard earned cash to support them'. Instead I'm probably going to be ultra cynical and imagine the concept being dreamed up by a bunch of folk with too much money during their golf rounds. Instead, I'm gonna think, you're part of the problem of whats wrong with this country. Everybody wants more and more money, more and more profit. Also, I'll run with an integrity based independent distillery before a 'craft' distillery, because "craft" is total nonsense and most craft distilleries, just like breweries, will sell to the highest multinational conglomerate bidder first chance they get, unless they truly believe in the culture of their product and they have a trust based relationship with their customers. Can I say too, It must be really frustrating for all the staff and folks making the distillate themselves, some of who I know post here and follow these threads, who likely have to answer to greedy shareholders/investors who value quantity and profit over quality.

At the same time, if you're an integrity based independent distillery, and I love your sourced whiskey, because you've been honest about it, and its well presented, then I'm now emotionally invested in your product as well. I want to see you do well. I want to support you. But I'll not willingly pay stupid money for a whiskey that you've being promoting for the last three years proclaiming how you're bringing whiskey back to Donegal since 1841 and all that and finally the local populace can get their hands on something they can be proud of...for €300 etc. i'll not just shrug and go 'ah well, too dear, not buying that.' I'm going to have an opinion as well on it. It doesn't appeal to me personally, and I'm allowed say so. I don't really understand why their own entry core range product should be a significant increase on their sourced product. hence the €45-50.

I also don't see why a new independant distillery can't have a range of offerings from €50 up and be honest and transparent about it. Fine, if its a blend, but make it a slightly higher ABV to show you care about the product. Tell us about the casks, tell us about the process, tell us what you're planning next. A young peated single malt, brilliant! Peated malts work fantastic young, say it on the website or the bottle or whatever so there's no misunderstanding. I know you can't knock out a pot still like powers three swallows for €30, thats fine. Make your money whatever way you make it, but know that theres a harcore audience out there that will call you out on it if they feel you're making a little too much out of unsuspecting pockets. That same audience can call out the big corporations too on their ridiculous price increases. Personally, integrity & fair pricing - its everything to me and my hard earned dough.

Sliabh Liag, to be fair to them, have been pretty good so far. I'll forgive what I perceive personallly to be a wee blip. An example of a similar integrity based brewery would be Kinnegar.

What whisk(e)y are we drinking? (Part 2)

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