Boards DCM22 Graduates Thread - A Deeper Understanding

I am following Hanson for Dublin and currently at week 5. For whatever reason, I've recently got in the habit of not taking water unless I go over 16km (~90 mins) and gel unless I am going over 20km. I know I should probably by hydrating as I go, but wondering if this is really hampering my progress. Thoughts?

You can get a starter pack online, gels, powder and a solid fuel. The gels are good and seem to suit most people. For me the drink mix is the best, if your time is short pre long run the 320 mix for breakfast is perfect to get you through.

I've decided against doing DCM this year but am following Hanson's half marathon plan (well sort of!) aiming for the DCM half in September. I actually really enjoy the intervals. Did 12x400 this morning and will do the tempo run on Friday. Even after a few weeks I notice I'm getting sharper with the intervals.

On the water I rarely bother for anything under 20k, I have some of the soft flasks that fit in my pocket if it's a really warm day but that's not something we need to worry about at the moment.

Starting to doubt myself and the plan bit bit now!!!!!

Had an ok first week on holidays but for the second week I only got in an easy 10k and a 2.15 Moderate run. The weather changed and we had to prioritise kids activities as it had been mostly raining the first week so I could run as there wasn't much else going on.....

I have the FD 10 mile this weekend, ran yesterday 6k easy and will do a 10k easy today but not on Friday I think!. Looking at the rest of the Grads plan I'm getting concerned that I don't see any really long 30K+ runs. I'm see a lot of others at these types of distances now and concerned that my furthest has only been 26K. I'm racing this 10 mile and the HM and those aren't in the grads plan so I was swapping out LSR's for them. My feeling is now that maybe I'm short on distance for the remaining weeks? Any opinions?

Yeah I suppose so. It is 11 weeks away. Hols was a bit of a detour alright, second week really didn't go to plan and had a lie of travel as well, I'll have to just move on from it. Feeling OK though and metrics all seem OK in terms of effort, hr and pace.

Did think last year that I peaked a little early, big hm pb in the pp, hopefully for this year it peaks closer to the marathon, this might just be wishful thinking but we'll see over the next few weeks!

probably not what I wanted to hear 😣 Just going to trust in the plan

Expectation between 75-80 mins... that's a vast range for a 10 mile race! The Wellington Monument hill is about 7k in - a difficult part of the race all the same and it might have been wise to expect to dial it back there and then consolidate on the more manageable drag up Chesterfield. It's a tricky course and the conditions were not ideal yesterday. I suppose one of the things about racing better when you start becoming more experienced is to manage the course well, having worked out in advance where the difficulties will be. That means you know you're going drop the pace at certain points but also that there will be opportunities to pick up later. Easier said than done of course. Certainly good that you came away with a positive result.

So, where am I at.. bit of a rambling post I think...

I did the DCM HM. Finished in 1.33.25. It was a fine result but probably about 1 minute slower than I expected. I wasn't disappointed as I went into it not focused on a pb and wanting to keep it controlled and hard but not flat out. I was with a nice group until about 13k and I just didn't have the energy to keep with them and slipped off a little, happened again at 18k when I started to go backwards a little (not a huge amount like in the FD10) but I certainly had to work for the last 4k. When I look back at last year I did a proper taper for the HM with 2 easy runs and a short recovery in that week, this year I'd 4 runs including an hour of marathon pace tempo, significantly more and I could feel that in the legs. I basically ran this to HR and kept it in low threshold rather than high threshold. All in all not bad, would liked it to have been a little bit better but considering all factors it's about right.

Training has been going better actually. I modified the Grads plan and decided to get my long runs longer but put stuff in them. The first went horribly at the end as I did 30 mins easy 1 hour steady and 30 mins easy but it was that really hot day and I just overheated and left too much easy at the end and had to crawl home. However I've done 1 hour easy, 30 steady, 30 pmp, CD and that went well and well as just regular long runs from 2.15 right through to 3 hours.

My mid week tempo sessions have been going well (following the grads plan structure for those). What I see compared to last year is a higher pace at a lower HR, and that is really encouraging. the session yesterday was really good and I was holding 30 mins pmp pace in my tempo HR zone as opposed to last year in low threshold. My easy HR has also dropped quite a bit. These are all really good signs. What I do feel is that I may be training myself for a good marathon, my races have been a bit off this year, I don't seem to be able to get into that pain zone of +threshold and suffer through, but the pmp effort seems easier and more comfortable.

The body is holding up better than last year too. This time last year I had a 2 week recurring visit to the physio with my lower back and achilleas/claves. My back is holding up this year and I'm managing the legs myself at home and don't need the physio at the moment (getting down the stairs in the morning is a fun experience though!!) I made a conscious decision to not chase miles this year. I'm averaging +70k per week over the last 5 weeks, I did an 85k week and just backed off a little and I'm feeling the better for it. I was just listening to the body and focused on the recovery it probably needed rather than getting out 7 days a week. I know there is a direct correlation between performance and mileage but I think another year is needed to step up again to be consistently in the +80k range in a block.

My mind has turned to times myself as well for Dublin. I've used a few of the conservative online calculators and I'm seem to be getting back a 3.22 or 3.23 result. I'm just mulling that over at the moment, it's seems about right (assuming the day itself goes ok), my tempo efforts (and I do it to effort not pace) are coming out at about 4.45 m/km, slightly up on last year with a lower HR as I mentioned. Does this seem about right to others?

I'll learn from last year and hold back a little more, I went at 27k in Terenure and should have waited just a bit longer. I also won't use the pace pro feature on the watch which was really distracting, I'll just go on my HR (probably a bit controversial) with my pace as the output and keep an eye on the pace range across the hills etc. I think last year I was a bit focused on a negative split whereas I just want to run it even as best as possible with a steady effort.

Cheers C. It's a fair point. I certainly wouldn't use it exclusively however I think it is what will keep me in check for long enough in the race that I can finish it stronger than last year where I shipped a couple of minutes. I "think" I'm familiar enough now to know what I can hold HR wise and what I can't, the concern would more be in me sticking to a pace irrespective of the HR and then blowing up.

Ha, I was probably one of the people suggesting to C to train by HR but don't race by it. I stand over that. On the day you have to trust your target and just figure out the best way around the course (pace wise) to achieve it.

That HM time in the middle of M training, on a course that simulates the Dublin course fairly well while also having bottlenecks, is the best indicator you'll get. 3:22 is certainly not aggressive, assuming you've got the marathon specific bits of the training regime right. It's not unaggressive either, mind - you'll know after 10k at that pace where it's going to get you on the day.

Anyway a few more weeks to go before you have to nail the colours to the mast.

I thought I posted a quick update the other day (must have forgot to press post 😁).

It's been a pretty frustrating period for me, started feeling some groin/pelvis pain about 6 weeks ago so stopped running, it was taking forever to heal so did try a couple of light runs with a view to still doing the DCM half but the pain was still there so gave the half a miss. I've been to a physio a few times now, he reckons it's Osteitis Pubis. It's one of those where all i can really do is rest and take an anti inflammatory.

I'm hoping I'll be back running soon as the pain isn't too bad. It's a pity as I'd put in a really good 5-6 weeks training before it and felt in super nick, that's the way it goes sometimes I suppose.

Doing ok @Dublinlad1989 Was at the physio today just to get some of the tension taken out of the calves. Bit of dry needling and all set.

Had a bit of a mare with the last LSR but it was hot and I was hungover so that is bound to happen. Otherwise I'm still clocking in the miles and started the taper now.

My mind is still on the time goal. My sessions have been going really well. My tempo has been coming in a low zone 3 compared to mid to high last year for roughly the same paces, at the same time and in the same shoes. It does give food for thought. See below, my avg HR is below 150 and not peaking to 152 on the tempo laps on the last couple of sessions where as I was averaging 154 to 156 and peaking at 160 last year. I think I have about 10 bpm to spare in additional fitness compared to last year.

It does make me wonder about whether I should aim for 3.20. I might set off closer to the 3.20 pacers this year and see what the HR is doing and how I'm feeling. If I have them in sight (which I didn't last year as I hung back quite a lot in the wave) then I can make decisions on the course based on how I'm feeling.

Yikes. Luckily I've never had toenail issues myself, but I've been reading a bit recently on ultras, where this is a little more common. The advice tended to be get a shoe with a bigger toebox or size up a half, and keep your nails trimmed. Also, use heel lock lacing. Other than that, maybe a thinner sock (e.g. Steigen)?

Strangely enough I lost all apart from my big toenails from wearing a pair of trainers that were a size too big for me. They were Novablast 2s and felt ok in the shop (the 12 were sold out in the sale). I wasn't too sure it was the shoes until I tried them out again a few months after and same happened again.