Double yellow lines for taxi pick-up

We only have one side of the story here and don't know the full interaction. But hey let's blame the garda for doing his job. OP if you have an issue tell it to the Judge. I see taxi drivers in and around the city centre do what they like as regards rules of the road. U turns on busy streets, breaking lights stopping on double yellow lines. Stopping in the middle of the street to pick up fairs. Congratulations to that garda for doing his bloody job.

I read it as the garda asked the passengers to get in and then asked the driver to the back for a chat. But yeah, can see it the other way now too.

As was mentioned, 2 sides to the story.

The UK has nothing to do with this - except for the fact that most of our legislation was (for a long time) copied and pasted from them.

As the previous poster said, the UK has the double red, which means no stopping - thereby creating the distinction between stopping and parking. We don't have double reds, which leads to this grey-ish area.

when I see illegal taxis operate in my local town, I dont tend to worry about bending the rules a bit, fcuk it, who cares. The taxi business is a ruthless game, most taxi drivers would sell their granny for a fare so you have to be the same as them, if your competitor pulls up on double yellows to get a fare, you have to as well, or you will be going home with feck all money in your pocket at the end of your night.

Whether you call it stopping or parking doesn't matter - there is no offence against parking in the middle of the lane. There's a separate offence of obstructing traffic, but it obviously doesn't apply in the case of a red light (since traffic can't proceed anyway). There is specifically an offence for parking on double yellow lines

It's also illegal to park on a single yellow line outside of specified time periods. However, even during those banned time periods, there is a specific exclusion for parking to allow a passenger to enter or exit the vehicle:

Article 37 prohibits parking on a single yellow line. So the legislation includes a specific allowance for exiting/entering passengers for single yellow lines, but has no such allowance for double yellow lines. The clear interpretation is that stopping to pick up a passenger on double yellow lines is not permitted

Source: https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print

You're ignoring the part of the legislation that specifically says side of a roadway. If you are stopped in traffic, you are not at the side, you are in lane.

Additionally, there is a specific exclusion in the legislation for stopping due to traffic:

What does there being two sides have to do with anything? If I'm stopped in traffic, I am not at either side of the roadway.

And the exclusion in 5(1) absolutely does apply to double yellow lines. "These Regulations" refer to the entire SI, and the prohibition on parking on double yellows is contained within them in 36(2)(a)

So, provided I'm not obstructing traffic, it would be perfectly legal for me to park in the center of the lane? Of course it wouldn't, but that's what your posts are showing.

The only point I'm trying to make, is that we didn't follow the UK in creating a distinction between 'no parking' and 'no stopping', and this leads to some room for interpretation/grey areas. You said it yourself -

This not being clearly defined in law leads to interpretation, and 50/50 situations. This is a pandora's box of opinions on what is or isn't permitted, and there isn't a clear right/wrong.

Does this just apply to the Road Traffic Acts, or, say, the Misuse of Drugs Act as well? Asking for a friend 😉

No

Bring it to court and settle it once and for all. How many extra points will it be?

Why do we have laws that specify clearways so when by a lot of logic here they amount to the same thing as single yellow lines with hours shown?

The law for a clearway specifies no parking or stopping, and the laws for yellow lines just mention parking. If parking and stopping are the same thing then why mention stopping in the context of clearways?

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print#article40

36 Prohibitions on Parking

36. (1) Save as otherwise provided for in these Regulations and subject to article 5, a vehicle shall not be parked on a public road at a location, in a manner or for a purpose referred to in this article.

(2) A vehicle shall not be parked—

( a ) on that side of a section of roadway along the edge of which traffic sign number RRM 008 [double yellow lines] has been provided;

...

37 Restrictions on Parking

37. (1) A vehicle shall not be parked during a period which may be indicated on an information plate, on that side of a section of roadway along the edge of which traffic sign number RRM 007 [single yellow line] has been provided.

...

40 Clearways

40. (1) A clearway means a part of a roadway at the start of which traffic sign number RUS 010 [Clearway], accompanied by an information plate, is provided and at the end of which traffic sign number RUS 010 [Clearway], accompanied by an information plate containing the words "End/Críoch", is provided.

(2) A vehicle may not be stopped or parked in a clearway during the period indicated on the information plate.



Some of ye are getting too hung up on stop and park. Park is defined in the RTA:

“park”, in relation to a vehicle, means keep or leave stationary, and cognate words shall be construed accordingly;

Keep or leave stationary, ie: you're still in it but not moving when you can, or you're not in it. Stopping at lights and remaining stopped when the lights go green is considered parked. Stopping on double yellow lines and remaining stopped is parking, whether you leave the vehicle or not (in this case, I believe he did so he was 100% parked). Doesn't matter if the vehicle is still running (leaving a running vehicle at any time is a separate offence).

As I said previously, we don't know all the facts. While yes, stopping to pick up a fare is nothing major, the law is still the law and we can't, nor should we encourage, picking and choosing which ones to obey and then give out about the consequences. It really doesn't bother me if they do or not, but it does bother me if it causes me a delay, regardless of how short it may be. It's ignorant of other peoples time, who those people consider less worthy than their own. If taxi drivers weren't getting caught and fined for this, it would be bedlam with them all at it all the time.

And before someone starts on at how hard would I find it, etc, etc, I'll reply to that with something that gets said quite a lot when someone else complains about their job: get a different one if it's that bad.

"Keep or leave stationary, ie: you're still in it but not moving when you can" - I feel like a broken record at this stage, but the bit I've put in bold is you adding context to the definition that doesn't exist in the Act.

I'm not saying I disagree with you. I'm just pointing out that you are adding context as you interpret it. The Act says absolutely nothing at all about moving off if you have the ability to do so (in relation to parking). That's why the definition in the Act is ambiguous.

Also, you say the taxi parked to pick up a customer. Fair enough. But what if we take the similar example of a bus - would you describe a bus at a bus stop as 'parked'? I wouldn't. I would say the bus stopped, people got on, and the bus moved off. I would never used the word parked in that situation.

OP’s details are so scant on this and they are so focused on the parking aspect, it’s safe to assume they’ve left a lot out. It was probably close to a junction, stopped at the last second and caused a traffic jam behind them causing cars to be stuck in the junction or some other calamity.

@asaptaxi show us on Google maps where you stopped

I would be amazed if there is not more to this than the OP is saying. For those who are asking for clear definitions in the legislation they should consider that the Irish legal system is based on a combination of leglisation and precedent. Just because someting is not clear in the leglisation does not mean you will be successful in court. If a judge previously made a judgement on a similar situation then that is a strong as the law.

So you don't think someone who is in traffic, stopped at a light, and doesn't move for no reason (ie: struggling to get into gear, learner, etc) and just sits there, you don't consider them parked? Park - Keep Stationary, I don't see the confusion here. Granted, you'd more likely issue a fine for obstruction rather than parked, but as per the RTA a person in lane, stopped at lights who doesn't move when they can (the words I added were just to clarify they were stopped at lights in traffic) is parked. Someone who does move when they can is not parked. Seems straight forward to me.

Even if you remove "when they can", if they just sit there with an empty road in front of them with the legal obligation to drive but doesn't, then they are parked (via keeping stationary) and blocking a lane. They're keeping their car stationary and blocking the people behind them. This is separate to the issue of this thread, this is someone not moving after stopping in line at traffic. Whether the car is running or not, if it's stationary it's parked.

Just so happens double yellows are usually on roads where there isn't room to park which would cause traffic behind to have to go into the oncoming lane. That's why you can't park there. And park is defined as keep stationary, so what the taxi driver did was park. No ambiguity there. The law shouldn't have to specify that if it's illegal to park then you have to move or just not stop in the first place.

Re: Bus's, they have specific bus stops especially in the city. Country, there are specific stops but I still see them stop on narrow roads. Too dangerous to overtake but also nothing I can do about it, just like the taxi drivers. Well, not anymore anyway. And yes, the bus that stops to pick people up is parked. Doesn't matter if it's for 10 seconds or 10 minutes, it's stopped and kept stationary, it's parked.

Maybe people are inferring one must leave the vehicle in order for it to be parked? To me, you're stopped at lights because you can't proceed and once you can proceed you do. Stopping to pick fares up is parking because there's nothing stopping you from proceeding. That's the way I interpret it anyway and I honestly don't believe I'm wrong, and was never pulled on it in 10ish years of ticketing.

Well we're not in the UK and the legislation is perfectly clear to me: Park - keep stationary.

You don’t get to break the law without consequence just by repeatedly breaking the law.

Two interesting scenarios today - any views on legality?

1) Ignorant tosser from CaseyGroup.ie blocking the pedestrian section of the crossing, because he was hugely surprised to find busy traffic on one of the main arterial routes into the city at rush hour. Is it explicitly illegal?

2) Tesco home delivery van stopping on timed Clearway during evening rush hour to make a delivery. I know there's an exception to the double-yellow laws for 30 minutes loading or unloading, but no exception for Clearways afaik.

Re: Pictures above -

1: Illegal. Unless it was clear to go all the way through the intersection, Caseyprick shouldn't have gone passed the first solid white line. I suspect this is a typical thing as most people don't look beyond the car in front of them. So like you said, caught when the lights changed before it could go.

2: I'm not getting the clearway bit, seems to be parked in a parking space? Or is it a cycle lane at certain times? Also looks to be plenty room between it and the centre lines. But illegal if it is a timed clearway.

I'm not gonna comment if it's "right" or not. I'm not gonna question whether the logitstics of Tesco home delivery should take into account areas with timed clearways (I'm of the opinion that yes, they should). That's the law and it's black and white, no matter how many try to confuse the issue. But we can't even get people to indicate, so what hope have we for the lesser known (but should still be known) laws...