Irish White Privilege......Yeah

silverharp · 22-08-2023 11:34am

it would be funny if the note had said.....like being white, male, protestant

we live in a society where its illegal to discriminate and if someone does and you can prove it you can get a payday. Its just a pity we have to import the foibles of the brits and the yanks

cdeb · 22-08-2023 11:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121010999#Comment_121010999

Not missing any point. The Anglo-Irish do not have the advantages they used to have. And that all changed without any nonsense about white male privilege. In fact, it changed by the removal of the sort of discrimination that simply doesn't exist here now.

So let's not start importing vacuous American nonsense where it's simply not needed. The idea of white privilege or male privilege is really a way for silly people to see the world, as it reduces it down to things - race, sex - that they can understand, and takes the actual complexities that they can't understand out of the discussion.

crusd · 22-08-2023 11:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011280#Comment_121011280

Of course.

Most of what you list are not what are being talked about though. With perhaps the exception of the legal outcomes.

silverharp · 22-08-2023 12:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011415#Comment_121011415

and explain it so that Decco from Clondalkin who grew up in an abusive home will agree that he has it.

22-08-2023 1:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011415#Comment_121011415

"White male privilege" is composed of nothing, because it's a nonsense concept to begin with. It's an inflammatory invention designed to stoke people against one another.

The reality is that being born white does not confer some special phantom power unavailable to everyone else.

Race is not a predictor of future success in society. Economic status is a far more relevant determinant. Take a look at how many poor people are in this country who are white, or people who are simply just getting by or who perhaps are struggling with bills. Go to their faces and tell them how privileged they are by virtue of the colour of their skin.

The people pushing this nonsense are either liars, grifters or baiters -- most of whom are, ironically, either upper middle class or elitists themselves.

Unflushable Turd · 22-08-2023 1:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121010152#Comment_121010152

And to stop being a catholic, all they had tI do was turn up at the local Church of Ireland gaff every Sunday. It was and still is, a tad harder to stop being black.

newmember2 · 22-08-2023 1:15pm

I'm distraught...how am I to atone for my superior looks and intellect privilege?

Unflushable Turd · 22-08-2023 1:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011280#Comment_121011280

When you get dressed in the morning, or to go out in the evening, what consideration do you give to not attracting unwanted attention?

when you go out for an evening, what consideration do you give about getting home safe, like making sure you are never on your own in a cab?

how often do you get your arse pinched, or have someone leading at you in a pub, telling you they would have to be dug out of you? Or calling you a stuck up bitch because you won’t accept a drink from them?

I’m guessing never, because you aren’t female.

elefant · 22-08-2023 1:31pm

There's amazing defensiveness on display here around the idea that some people have advantages because of their appearances, their socio-economic class, their sexuality etc.

You don't have to feel guilty because you're a man or because you're straight. But it can be a positive thing to realise that there are certain situations (like walking alone on a street at night) where you're in a privileged situation because of who you are, and be mindful that not everyone else experiences life in the same way you do.

crusd · 22-08-2023 1:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011415#Comment_121011415

It is you guys harping on about "white male privilege" and think it is being applied to all white men in all situations.

Decco from Clondalkin, as another poster identified does not benefit massively from "white male" privilege in Ireland. Fiachra from Dalkey does though.

In everyones life there are advantages and challenges they face. Acknowledging there are certain advantages that accrue to some and not others does not mean that they automatically face no challenges or obstacles in life. Again, two or more things can both be true at the same time. The world is not an either/or.

cdeb · 22-08-2023 1:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011694#Comment_121011694

What an ignorant comment.

First off, black people in Ireland don't face any of the systemic discrimination that Catholics did in Ireland for centuries.

Secondly, why should people blithely change their culture like that? This was quite a religious time when the concepts of heaven and hell were very much believed in by many, and many people would have believed renouncing your church put you at risk of eternal damnation. We can laugh at that now, but the reality is it's not a factor you can ignore like you did. Plus you've a risk of being ostracised by your community, and of not being accepted by the new community.

And thirdly, they also had to change the language they spoke, from Irish to English. Not something you can do at the drop of a hat like you suggest.

Some people did it of course - but to say "all they had to do" is ignorant in the extreme.

cdeb · 22-08-2023 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011786#Comment_121011786

Why doesn't Sorcha from Dalkey have the same advantages as Fiachra though? Or what about Harpal, whose dad came over from India on the back of a plum IT job, and became equally wealthy?

This is where I think your idea of white male privilege is a lazy way of trying to understand the world - reducing things to observable facets of a person's appearance (race, sec, etc) because the real complexities of life are actually quite tricky. Certainly far more complex than you're making out.

magicbastarder · 22-08-2023 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011758#Comment_121011758

it's funny how many people in this thread don't understand the difference between 'can be' and 'is'.

giving an *example* that white people can benefit from privilege is not a statement that all white people are more privileged than black people all the time.

the example given was clearly a case of 'if you enjoy a privileged position, it is a good thing to be aware of that'. but it seems no formulation of how that can be phrased will be OK for some people.

silverharp · 22-08-2023 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011775#Comment_121011775

not in the round though in this realm, more men are violently attacked and more killed, the 4 English tourists and the American one just recently were all men for example.

elefant · 22-08-2023 1:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011826#Comment_121011826

I'm a man and I have no idea at all what the last line there is referring to?

And rather than it being conceited to think that men don't stop to consider their privilege in many social situations, I think it is extremely naive to think otherwise.

elefant · 22-08-2023 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011889#Comment_121011889

Yes, you're getting it now. What's the problem with acknowledging those things?

crusd · 22-08-2023 1:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011818#Comment_121011818

My idea or white male privilege? I think you need to read the thread again. The people continually talking about white male privilege continually are yourself and your fellow travellers. I have given many examples of privilege almost none of which are based on skin tone or gender.

The document that sparked this whole rabbit hole said the below in its only reference to "privilege"

Allyship involves recognising and using one’s privileged status (for example as white or male or Irish person) to support individuals from minority identity groups.

It does not say White Male Irish Privilege, but is just a definition of allyship. That is all. It uses white or male or Irish as an example. It is not limited to these. Someone elses could chose their privilege as being their parents decision to immigrate to Ireland, their socio-economic background or a myriad of others.

And once again, the above sentence is the only reference in a 20 page consultation document to "privilege". Anyone reading the thread would believe it was a full course on white male privilege.

Where is is applied in the document is:

Ways to advocate for and create greater equity and inclusion 3.5 consider the skills needed to stand up for themselves and others, and the range of situations where this might arise 3.6 demonstrate allyship skills to challenge unfair or abusive behaviours and support greater equity and inclusion.

That is all. Yet here ye all are, losing your sh*t.

NSAman · 22-08-2023 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011911#Comment_121011911

If you acknowledge those things constantly, you are making apologies for something ALL the time. When do you actually “be yourself”? Comparing yourself to others, apologising for who you are and what you are, through no fault of your own, is a fools way to live.

magicbastarder · 22-08-2023 2:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011889#Comment_121011889

same thing for every variable? in a short example in a glossary?

as i said

the example given was clearly a case of 'if you enjoy a privileged position, it is a good thing to be aware of that'. but it seems no formulation of how that can be phrased will be OK for some people.

Q.E.F'ing.D.

cdeb · 22-08-2023 2:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011923#Comment_121011923

It's fairly suggestive that the only examples it uses are "white", "male", "Irish" though, isn't it?

Would you not think there'd be a bit of an attempt at diversity in there? But it's never black, female, Muslim privilege.

So it stands to reason that of course the discussion is going to be on white male Irish privilege - after all, those are the words in the document. Precedent would show it's highly unlikely to go down the lines of my second paragraph, don't you think?

And then of course we have the obligatory reference to outrage/losing your ****/taking offence which hasn't been happening and is thrown in purely to try dismiss a point's relevance without addressing it.

elefant · 22-08-2023 2:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011968#Comment_121011968

Nobody is talking about making apologies, apart from the cohort in this thread who are arguing against the idea of privilege. Just being aware of it is a positive thing, in my view.

I'm not apologising for being a white man. I do understand that, in my daily life in the city I live in, it makes many aspects of my life much easier.

NSAman · 22-08-2023 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011990#Comment_121011990

So move to Africa, see if your other countrymen/women/they/them, recognise their privilege? It’s a purely western BS construct.

magicbastarder · 22-08-2023 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011987#Comment_121011987

in an irish context, where the majority of the audience will be white irish, are you suggesting that listing being black or being muslim as an example of being privileged would be sensible?

22-08-2023 2:15pm

WInd and piss artists.

magicbastarder · 22-08-2023 2:15pm

i'll email the NCCA with a suggestion that they change the offending text to this.

Allyship

involves recognising and using one’s privileged status (for example as white or black or asian or hispanic or mixed race or male or female or non-binary or Irish person or english or european or african or asian or catholic or protestant or hindu or muslim or atheist or none of the above) to support individuals from minority identity groups.

elefant · 22-08-2023 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012011#Comment_121012011

This doesn't sound like an argument against the concept.

But anyway, do I think it would be nice if people were sympathetic towards me being a white man if I was in a place where I was in a position of relative disadvantage? Yes.

crusd · 22-08-2023 2:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011987#Comment_121011987

You think the subject is designed for only white Irish males?

Once again the only reference is in the context of:

Ways to advocate for and create greater equity and inclusion 3.5 consider the skills needed to stand up for themselves and others, and the range of situations where this might arise 3.6 demonstrate allyship skills to challenge unfair or abusive behaviours and support greater equity and inclusion.

It is outlining that this is something that everyone doing the subject should consider when reflecting on themselves? Why do you believe it only applies to white male Irish? It can only be a desire to be permanently outraged or an inability to self reflect really.

NSAman · 22-08-2023 2:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012044#Comment_121012044

We’ll try it at some stage, report back to us about how disadvantaged you were and what the privileged did for you.

elefant · 22-08-2023 2:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012060#Comment_121012060

What's your point?

That some other people wouldn't be kind to you, so you couldn't be bothered even engaging with the idea that you should? Or that children in school shouldn't be encouraged to think about it?

crusd · 22-08-2023 2:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012095#Comment_121012095

Its the whole extreme moral relativism mindset that infects discourse these days and sets up the idea the "X isn't perfect therefore Y is OK". In this thread specifically it is reflected in the opinion the certain people have no need to consider that the may have experienced advantages relative to other people, because other people might not do the same.

Irish White Privilege......Yeah

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