Irish White Privilege......Yeah

crusd · 22-08-2023 3:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012382#Comment_121012382

You will get there eventually.

Its like a right handed designer of a consumer product considering it may be used by a left handed person. In the design process they should consider their design and does their right handedness in designing the product impact its functionality for a left handed person. If it does, are there any modifications that would improve the functionality for a left handed person without impacting the overall product. Will there be some residual disadvantage for the left handed person and if there is have you made every effort to mitigate it before deciding the residual disadvantage was acceptable.

crusd · 22-08-2023 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012542#Comment_121012542

What relevance does you being pinched in the arse have to the experience of women being pinched in the arse? Because you have experienced it women should feel fine about it?

crusd · 22-08-2023 3:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012484#Comment_121012484

privilege, noun: a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.

TomTomTim · 22-08-2023 3:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012595#Comment_121012595

"I'm guessing never, because you aren't female" might be the relevant part. And once again, another poster who likes to put words in peoples mouths. I've never said or implied anything as such. It's so lowly to try and twist what I've said into what you're claiming I said or implied.

growleaves · 22-08-2023 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012562#Comment_121012562

Lol

crusd · 22-08-2023 4:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012624#Comment_121012624

Laugh all you want. The real hilarity is those losing their **** about a single word in a definition in an appendix to a 20 page document

batman_oh · 22-08-2023 4:04pm

More divisive nonsense to create even more victims and resentment. Look how brilliantly it's going for America.

magicbastarder · 22-08-2023 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012582#Comment_121012582

White male is just 1 card.

And thats the only one we ever hear about.

Why are we discussing that 1 card in isolation. Continually.

that's a damn good question. it was just an *example* in the NCCA glossary but people are talking about it like it's *not an example*. people have decided that that one example means that's what the curriculum will be about, i.e. white privilege. but it just means that they'll be teaching kids that if they find themselves in a position where they are in some way in a privileged position, they'll be able to be an ally to those who are not.

i mean, it's just the essence of charity and a whole host of other welcome behaviours. but people are losing their minds over the choice of white or male *as examples*. they were not going to list every single possible example in what was just a glossary explaining 'allyship'.

TomTomTim · 22-08-2023 4:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012647#Comment_121012647

None of this is in isolation though, it's one of the tenants of an ideology that's been spreading like wildfire in the West for the last ten years or so, an ideology that claims to do good but often seems to do bad; it claims that it unifies and uplifts but really all it does it push people apart, whether that be on racial ground or gender grounds.

magicbastarder · 22-08-2023 4:17pm

As I asked earlier, if they were to give an example, what do you suggest they should have used instead?

RoboRat · 22-08-2023 4:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012271#Comment_121012271

Not dissimilar to my own story. I worked 25 hours a week to put myself through college - hard graft washing cars whilst doing a full-time degree. I worked in badly paid jobs but rinsed them for training and upskilling, and I took every opportunity I could. I moved jobs not for salary, but for experience and I occasionally took pay cuts or additional workloads to get the skills I needed. Nothing was handed to me and I made the right career decisions when many thought I was nuts.

There is privilege in this world, but many who are deemed to fall into the 'white male privilege' bracket are just people who went out and worked their asses off to get to where they are. I'm all for equality, but equality doesn't require dragging specific groups down. Equality is if someone is willing to put in the hard work, they should be able to prosper irrespective of their gender, race, colour, or creed.

cdeb · 22-08-2023 4:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012370#Comment_121012370

It is ignorant. I outlined why.

This isn't a competition about who was treated worse than whom. This is showing that historically, Irish Catholics were discriminated against in this country in a way nobody is discriminated against now (in specific response to the post about historic systemic discrimination carrying forward to today). And we resolved that problem without all this shoe-gazing guff about everybody realising their privilege.

(And I always feel it worthwhile pointing out to the slave point that black people were rounded up in Africa by other black people, and sold by black people to white people. A lot of black people did very well out of the slave trade. Just a point that gets forgotten about quite regularly)

cdeb · 22-08-2023 4:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012014#Comment_121012014

Absolutely. It gets away from the tired cliche we see in America where white privilege is the only one you ever hear about.

And I would prefer we stop this daft nonsense altogether; we've managed for decades without it.

(I note you ignored the idea of female privilege, so I presume you agree with that?)

magicbastarder · 22-08-2023 4:33pm

i am continually enjoying the irony of watching people discussing a topic where they're trying to teach kids to be more self aware, displaying a complete lack of self-awareness about what is being discussed. it's not about you!

they're not saying 'if you're white and male, you're automatically privileged no matter what'. it's about teaching kids that in situations where being male is a privilege, to recognise that and help others.

you'd swear that they'll be telling kids 'even though you might be piloting a yacht through the indian ocean, and surrounded by somali pirates, remember your privilege'. i know some people want to think that's what going to be taught, but despite their protestations, they want to present *themselves* as the victims in this. which is a glorious irony.

'i am a self made man who came from nothing but struggle through many challenges, and the greatest hardship i faced was the very thought that kids might be taught to help each other'. give me strength.

magicbastarder · 22-08-2023 4:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012740#Comment_121012740

(I note you ignored the idea of female privilege, so I presume you agree with that?)

i am not a machine; the thread is over 200 posts long, so stop trying to set up a strawman.

growleaves · 22-08-2023 4:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012638#Comment_121012638

A single word can be significant and word choice tells us what to expect. These political concepts are not at all new.

Most people now are pretty hardened to this kind of thing after years of being exposed to it in US and UK media. They are not political naifs in taking leftwing talk about kindness and empathy at face value.

You have not helped to diffuse cynicism on this thread because your replies to rapidash and NSAman were patronising. Are you Mr Empathy or a man filled with intellectual pride?

But I wish you no ill will. Go in peace.

crusd · 22-08-2023 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012755#Comment_121012755

Have you actually read what is referenced? Do you really think the Draft Senior Cycle Social, Personal and Health Education (SPHE) Specification has that much influence? Can you look at the below, the only sections in anyway connected to the discussion here, and identify what the problem actually is?

Unflushable Turd · 22-08-2023 5:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012729#Comment_121012729

a lot of black people did nicely out of the slave trade, just as many Irish people did nicely out of the famine. I'm not sure what the point is?

no, it isn't a competition, nor does admitting that white privilege is a thing diminishes the oppression that some Irish people suffered. Being white is an advantage, regardless of your accent or the particular way you choose to worship.

growleaves · 22-08-2023 5:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012841#Comment_121012841

Er I am not going to walk you through the way in which such concepts like 'allyship' and 'white privilege' exist in a wider cultural concext. They're not standalone concepts that the SPHE has just invented.

Sorry but nobody believes that leftists like yourself do not understand how leftism operates throughout culture, however much you feign ignorance. You are hoping that non-leftists do no understand this but as you can see from this thread they really do. Therefore they won't be taking what you say at face value.

I can't wish you luck in your quest for political power.

silverharp · 22-08-2023 5:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012861#Comment_121012861

"Being white is an advantage, regardless of your accent or the particular way you choose to worship"

Imagine saying that to black people

cdeb · 22-08-2023 5:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012752#Comment_121012752

No strawman; just asking the question. You can answer now if you want. I'm just curious, and of course acknowledge that it's easy to miss a point in the discussion

growleaves · 22-08-2023 5:41pm

Furthermore, one poster mentioned the historic centuries-long oppression of Irish Catholics under a Protestant theocracy on this island and instead of just gritting their teeth and saying "Yeah cool, good example" and slowly changing the subject to black slavery or Jim Crow or whatever our left-wing friends above couldn't even do that.

Instead the guy flips out:

'While Irish Catholics were discriminated against, black people were being rounded up, shipped to the other side of the world and sold as slaves to the highest bidder, and please don't give me any of this bullshit about the red legs and "we were treated worse than the blacks".'

Of course its outrage to mention the suffering of our own ancestors who were genocided, what about...American slavery, American segregrationism, American civil rights, American this and American that.

Like I said, importing your junk ideology from America sticks out like a sore thumb. Its embarassing. Can't you even come up with your own waffle instead of just copy-and-pasting it from the New York Times??

cdeb · 22-08-2023 5:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012861#Comment_121012861

"nor does admitting that white privilege is a thing diminishes the oppression that some Irish people suffered. Being white is an advantage, regardless of your accent or the particular way you choose to worship."

See this for me is the sort of baseless racism that this whole discussion inevitably provokes.

And it's nonsense. Which is why I think we're better off without this crap in schools (or even in an appendix of a proposal for mixing things up in future, if you prefer)

Flaneur OBrien · 22-08-2023 6:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121013004#Comment_121013004

Do you think being white carries no advantage at all?

Unflushable Turd · 22-08-2023 6:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121013004#Comment_121013004

what are you on about, baseless racism?

gameoverdude · 22-08-2023 6:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121013132#Comment_121013132

Skin cancer...oh wait...

Unflushable Turd · 22-08-2023 6:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121013003#Comment_121013003

It isn’t an outrage to mention their suffering, it is irrelevant to the discussion.

If you go back in anyone’s history then you’ll find some form of oppression, it’s pretty much how the human species operated for the first few thousand years after it learnt how to scratch its own arse.

cdeb · 22-08-2023 6:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121013132#Comment_121013132

Not really. Ask people in Moldova, Ukraine or Abkhazia as I said earlier. Or ask a warehouse operative or long-distance driver whose wage is being kept low/hours kept high because his employers can go to Eastern Europe to recruit for cheap labour there. Or anyone in Ireland until maybe 30 years ago. They'd all laugh at you.

There's a suggestion earlier in thread that Deco from Ballyer (or whatever it was) doesn't benefit from white privilege but Fiachra from Dalkey does. This is silly stuff. It's seeing people who are doing well and judging them by their skin colour. That's just racist.

I think being wealthy carries privilege though. And anyone can be wealthy. That's far more an issue. Look at us destroying Eastern European communities through emigration for example, leaving them in demographic collapse and finding it hard to grow their economy because of the brain drain we generate. That's privilege, leading to exclusion and inequity. But we don't care about or talk about that of course.

magicbastarder · 22-08-2023 6:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012989#Comment_121012989

i would happily agree that in certain contexts, women hold a privileged position. but in general? no.

magicbastarder · 22-08-2023 6:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121013199#Comment_121013199

in the contexts you're quoting, race is moot. it's not about race, it's about nationality or economic status. jobs aren't being sent abroad because of race, they're being sent abroad because of lower costs.

Irish White Privilege......Yeah

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