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Irish White Privilege......Yeah

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Yeah, and the fact that stuff like this is more likely to be pushed by middle or upper class types is highly relevant too. Privileged people for the most part, who push an ideology that makes us all "privileged" due to our race, is a very convenient get out for people who have class based privilege.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Can we still blame the German's(only white male German's, of non Jewish lineage, or gay, or two vowels in their first name. Catholics grand? ) ?

    I'm so confused with this thread!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Any statement that generalises an entire population based on their skin colour is by definition racist.

    Racism:

    the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.

    That's exactly what some on this thread are defending.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    We're in Ireland and the thread is called Irish White Privilege. I don't care about Moldova, Ukraine or wherever else you want to throw in the mix at this moment in time.

    Are you saying, In Ireland, being white carries no advantage at all?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭crusd


    So you choose to argue against something not mentioned in the document or by anyone else in the document. It’s great when you can invent a version an opposing argument so you don’t have to address what was actually said



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,046 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    May God have mercy on my soul for asking - who is being racist and how?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭crusd


    Both injustices and their consequences can be discussed. Acknowledging one does not make the other any less valid. It’s like ye believe that if ye admit that an “other” experienced something that disadvantages them it automatically invalidates any challenges faced from what you perceive as you’re in group. It doesn’t.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭crusd




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭crusd


    But all that was being asked was for individuals, irrespective of their background, consider what privileges they may have had relative to a minority, be it race, sex, religion, disability, anything. It is only suggested for people to consider themselves and not identify a full group.

    The privileges I have as a white Irish male are not very much influenced by my ethnicity. A white British male though, their society greatly benefitted from their treatment of colonial territories, including Ireland.

    Gender, yes, even in the 90’s I had choices in what I could study in school that girls in the same school did not purely because of gender. That was a privilege and it benefited me in my chosen career.

    I had a stable family and extended family. That was a privilege relative to some.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You can claim that for yourself, that's fine.

    But when people make sweeping statements about all white Irish people, that's when it becomes racist.

    A more accurate position would be, "Some people identify as privileged in society, irrespective of their skin colour".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,530 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Well..... living in northern latitudes, it makes me less prone to vitamin D deficiency without having to take vitamin supplements, even in our dull winters.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,258 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb



    Not really. The famine, the Penal Laws, the Troubles, white Irish people being refugees in their own country (Mosney), brain drain, people now unable to afford houses? Lots of privilege there.

    The argument for "Irish White Privilege" (now a combined thing and separate from white privilege and Irish privilege it seems) is a bit like the argument for God, I think. When something good happens, it's privilege or God looking out for you. When something bad happens - yeah, we'll quietly ignore that.

    But God persists because it's an easy way to explain a complex world beyond some people's understanding. And now white Irish male (or, it seems, any mix thereof) privilege exists because it's similarly an easy way to explain a complex world beyond some people's understanding. I think there's possibly a correlation between the decline of God in western society and the rise of stuff like white privilege. Silly people need something they can understand, and whether it's right nor not isn't really important.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭nachouser


    A casual glance at threads started and post histories will tell you a lot about the reason for the thread. Just saying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,363 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    So far we've seen that travellers (themselves white and Irish) have a different experience of Irish society to others.

    We've also seen that rich white irish people really do have a demonstrably better time of it than virtually everyone else in the country, one or two of whom have shared that they feel extremely privileged on this thread, they have also made the assumption that their privilege is based on their nationality and skin tone and therefor all people with the same skin colour as them in this country are also privileged in the same way as they are even if they are say, destitute and possibly addicts or any number of things, once you're white and Irish, and even more so if you're a man, you are by default, extremely privileged.

    This is of course codswallop.

    If you're from an affluent background and feel some guilt for having had such a privileged life, don't project it onto others by virtue of genetics and nationality.

    We can rattle off all sorts of historical events and hardships that contextualise the insanity of this ideology but one pertinent question remains; even in the time when there was precious little in terms of ethnic diversity in Ireland, was Irish society ever completely equal? The answer is obviously no, which means there have always been privileged people in Ireland as well as disadvantaged people, and even today the majority of disadvantaged people in Ireland remain white Irish people.

    These facts don't give us leave to discriminate against people of differing ethnicities it just makes a mockery of the notion of white Irish privilege.

    We also have to acknowledge that a lot of people from outside Ireland who now live here are likely reasonably affluent themselves as Ireland is not a cheap place to choose to live and work in. Also, we don't have a massive problem with groups who target people on the basis of their nationality or ethnicity (a recent report demonstrated how numbers of anti immigration protests have fallen sharply for example), so Ireland isn't a bad place for people from outside Ireland to choose to live at all and there certainly aren't massive disadvantages for non white Irish people in our society.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,046 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    even if i was to take your post at face value - which i don't, certainly not all of it - are you arguing that this concept of 'allyship' (a word which i have yet to come to like) should not be taught? that kids shouldn't be taught to be aware of situations where they're in a position to help others?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "Allyship" is a socio-political term.

    People should be taught to respect one another, period. But we don't need to foist socio-political terms like "ally", and even worse, "allyship", to reinforce that point (what a stupid word, by the way).

    Nobody is saying people shouldn't help others. What we're saying is that politics needs to stay the hell away from that teaching.



  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    You're going to be really upset when you find out that not only does the government teach people to help each other, it actively practices it by taking your taxes and uses it to better the lives of others less well off than yourself. I know, I know... you might need to lie down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Travellers are shown incredible tolerance considering how awful they behave, most indulged group in the land



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    It’s a form of woke original sin, teaching Irish children about “ white privilege” is no different to the Catholic Church of old instilling guilt back in the day



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Our corporation tax rate carries an advantage, do you want to teach kids about that ?

    why is it necessary to even characterise a large group of people as “ privileged “ ?

    even we had a history identical to say Switzerland ( wealthy a long time), I would vehemently oppose this kind of Neo Marxist mind poison being inflicted on children



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭nachouser


    This is the best bingo thread ever. I thought the rte thread was good, but this beats it. Good stuff, lads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    It's just anti white racism. It's all over the place tbh



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭crusd


    Where is “white Irish privilege”a combined thing other than those complaining about it?

    More creation of imaginary arguments



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭crusd


    Where is the proposal to teach Irish children about white privilege? Because the actual proposal is for all students taking the course, irrespective of background, as part of inclusion,to consider how they may have benefited from a privilege that a minority, any minority, may not have. That is all.

    The course teaching Irish children about white male privilege is an invention out of the fevered imaginations of those in this thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    Fiachra and Dekko walk into Hanlons pub. Both shout across the pub at the bar man to stick a pint on for them. We all know what happens next.

    Who benefits from their privilege there?

    Harping on about "white privilege" is just a way to be a racist knob and get away with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭rock22


    I imagine, a black man would completely agree with that sentence



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    if people adopt a group identity it becomes debilitating, it psychologically damaging and unproductive, you can only live one's life as an individual, not a group average.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,672 ✭✭✭elefant


    Having privilege in one area doesn't mean that absolutely everything is better for you. This is a wildly simplistic understanding of the concept (although, in this example I'm not sure where 'white privilege' comes into play).

    If you mean that Fiachra is a Irish guy from a privileged background and Dekko isn't - Fiachra might have less trouble getting into bars and nightclubs because of the way he speaks and the way he dresses. So if he is friends with Dekko, it would probably be a nice thing for him to be aware of if they're chatting about their experiences with bouncers in Ireland.

    Just because they can both get served a pint in similar time doesn't mean that the idea of 'privilege' existing is nonsense.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Either way it’s about instilling the idea that Irish kids have an advantage over kids from other cultures and nations, that serves no healthy purpose, the politicisation of education must be vehemently opposed , the militant progressives espousing this are todays Maos red guards



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