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Irish White Privilege......Yeah

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭crusd


    Who is harping on about white privilege other than the folks on this thread telling us everyone is harping on about white privilege?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭crusd


    Did you actually read it or did you just take the rants on this threat face value.

    It can be any privilege that potentially conferred advantage - socio-economic background, education, disability etc etc. It only in the misconceptions continuously expressed through this thread that the focus on ethnicity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166 ✭✭blueskys


    Privilege comes from class, not skin colour. To be fair the glossary should replace 'white' with 'middle/upper class' or 'privately educated'.

    But they won't do that. Class is what nobody mentions in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    I oppose any and all concepts of privilege being taught in schools , as I said , it serves no healthy purpose, it instills either feelings of guilt or envy , education should not be politicised



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭crusd


    It’s not being taught in schools. It is simply asking students to consider what advantages, if any, they may have had, when considering inclusion of a minority, any minority. That is all. The rest of it is intentions that have been projected onto a single worked by dozens of posters at this stage. A classic straw man. And the continual claims that anyone who has not wiped themselves into a frenzy are claiming “white privilege” is pure gaslighting, to use your own term.

    It must be great when you can create an alternate version of what you are arguing against. Eliminates any need to actually form a coherent vioewpoint.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭crusd


    Another completely inventing something that doesn’t exist by taking a single word out of context. It’s bizarre behaviour



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    A lot of this conversation is going over your head isnt it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27 Tell it to me arse


    And the people of England were fighting a larger empires in France, Spin etc. what’s your point? The Irish weren’t under the tutelage of some baddy, we weren’t all victims. There was plenty of oppressed people in England also. There was also plenty of oppressed in Ireland after independence by the very people you say were oppressed.

    In fact, as other posters have said on here oppression is a fact of life in all walks of life and that applies to the English also. This narrative of the Irish being goodies who were oppressed and suffered multiple genocides as several people have mentioned on this thread alone, is laughable.

    Read John Mitchell’s Jail Journal for the a real look at how republicans view people of other races most particularly Africans. He also advocated for slavery. This is the reality of the supposed oppressed during those times and the narrative that the oppressed Irish were victims and against slavery racism etc is wholly false. They were the greatest advocates for it in many cases.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,258 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    What, do you mean apart from literally the post I was replying to?

    "We're in Ireland and the thread is called Irish White Privilege. I don't care about Moldova, Ukraine or wherever else you want to throw in the mix at this moment in time. [So rejecting the idea of just white privilege]

    Are you saying, In Ireland, being white carries no advantage at all? [Now specifically combining the two]"

    Is that the only part of my point you can pick at?



  • Registered Users Posts: 27 Tell it to me arse


    Yes but the narrative being spun by the Irish establishment is wholly false. They come off as generous and accepting of other races and nationalities but spin the victimhood of Ireland agenda to cleanse their hands of any implication in the racism/slavery against Africans is false.

    You have bought into this narrative. It’s shows you up as one of the gombeens you mention above.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Like I said earlier, we see you

    “ inclusion “ is a politically and ideologically loaded term, put it in the bin



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And anything promoted for the sake of "inclusion" almost always causes more division in society.

    The US is a perfect example of that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,803 ✭✭✭satguy


    Being white is not is not our fault,, we are more or less the same colour as all other Northern Europeans.

    And not so long ago, being Irish might have been seen as a negative in the eyes of some of our nearby fellow Europeans.

    So why should anyone now think that being Irish and white now comes with Privilege,, it most certainly does not.

    But it may be argued that in the eyes of other non White Northern Europeans, that we do indeed have some kind of perceived Privilege. And again, this is not our fault.  



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭crusd


    The whole thread about Irish white privilege being taught in schools came from a reaction to a document which does not propose teaching white Irish privilege in schools. It is an invention, a fantasy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27 Tell it to me arse


    There are exceptions to every rule but the vast majority of people from different races who come through the asylum system are disadvantaged. That’s not to say they can’t work their way up in Irish society after a couple of generations. But there is a cohort that need a leg up to survive for circumstances through no fault of their own.

    which brings me to the underprivileged white people form Ireland. Very often the system gives handouts to them and they are under no incentive to improve their circumstances. They are where they are in life through bad life choices, lack of sacrifice at a young age and failure to work hard. That is not the case for the underprivileged who came in through the asylum system.

    Which brings me back to your original post showing up exceptions to the position of people who are fighting for white privilege to be taught. White privilege certainly exists. And it’s dripping off this thread. The examples showing white depravity of circumstances and poverty are completely different circumstances to the poverty of people from different races. The exceptions you highlight, to show the intricacies and exceptions to this generally true rule, are transparent. The defiance and arrogance displayed here by white, middle aged, middle class Irish males here is sickening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭crusd


    In the context of the document that initiated the discussion it is not a thing. In the context of the individual it may or may not be an advantage depending on the situation and whomever you are comparing yourself to.

    Ands thats still what most do not get. Talking about privilege is an individual thing. Depending on the individual circumstances a given trait or background may or may not have been of benefit, that's why it is up to the individual consider themselves.

    The concept of people being under-privileged is well established. If there is under-privilege there is privilege, whatever that may be.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,051 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    So why should anyone now think that being Irish and white now comes with Privilege

    the context here is schools. being a kid of recently immigrated parents who do not have english as a first language will be a common scenario for many students. in that context, a fellow student whose parents are irish going back dozens of generations would enjoy certain advantages.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,420 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Personally I'd prefer if the examples they used were not racist/sexist/xenophobic.

    Surely the bracketed example was unnecessary? Can we not just teach an understanding that privileges exist in many forms?

    I mean why not say (for example, attractive, athletic, intelligent people).

    Because if you're born with any of those abilities you're going to live a more privileged life than (for example, ugly, disabled, dumb people)

    And you've done it without being sexist, racist or xenophobic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭crusd


    That is complete bullsh*t. There isn't a hierarchy of under-privilege. The circumstances that any individual faced that resulted in disadvantage are real. Someone who grows up in Darndale on Moyross is not to blame for where there grew up, no more that the asylum seeker form Kharkiv or Mogadishu. The disadvantages that someone faces should be acknowledged irrespective of their background.

    Take Kieth Earls as an example - he overcame the under-privilege of growing up in Moyross, a very disadvantaged area of Limerick. However, everyone from the same area did not benefit from the same privileges that he did - e.g - being from a rugby family he was exposed to the community around Young Muster rugby club which gave him structure that others did not benefit from. It doesn't negate his achievements in overcoming his challenges. But everyone who grew up in the same area did not have the same chances he had.

    Post edited by crusd on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    ”inclusion “

    “ diversity “

    these are all terms used today like holy or respectable were used by pious catholics fifty years ago, they are woke holy words today



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    we owe people from Africa in DP nothing , just because you subscribe to some notion that Western Europeans have a duty to rescue people from countries that have chronically failed to get their societies and countries together, doesn’t mean that the rest of us buy into this whole premise.

    and you then have the audacity to accuse others of arrogance?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    So what ?

    divert energy to teaching that kid English rather than wasting valuable school hours instilling guilt in Irish kids



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Proponents of teaching concepts like privilege in schools and so on, must accept the conclusion that it leads to the same social division and "culture wars" that plague the United States at present. In other words, the experiment has already been performed.

    As someone who backs introducing privilege to this country etc., are you comfortable with that outcome?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,258 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    We've moved on from the document crusd. I was responding to a specific post which clearly did reference white Irish privilege (combined).

    And you regularly reference talking about your privilege. It sounds lovely but when you consider it, it's a load of crap. It'll achieve nothing other than give you a warm glow at how great you are. The Catholic equivalent would have been to consider how fortunate you were that God gave you all the gifts you have. Meaningless when it comes down to it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    "....White privilege certainly exists. And it’s dripping off this thread. "

    thats one of the reasons it shouldnt be promoted, it gets weaponised like above to Other people in a discussion, and its a good idea to teach white privilege to kids of all backgrounds?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 27 Tell it to me arse


    “There isn’t a hierarchy of underprivileged”.

    There are different circumstances leading to that underprivileged state. In the case of asylum seekers it’s not their own fault. In the case of people from Darndale there is a racket going on that perpetuates that poverty. Those circumstances are those peoples faults in many instances . It was discussed in the Peter McVerry Trust thread.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,492 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Meh, just replacing the Irish Catholic guilt complex with Irish white guilt complex.

    Some people just love beating themselves up, let them at it, not my bag.



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