"Green" policies are destroying this country

I assume you are also in favour of moving back to our pre renewables fantasy era whereby generation was centralised and far more easily managed? Why have 100's of tiny independent mom and pop wind farms randomly scattered around the country leeching off the governments tit when we can just have far larger thermal plants that can be easily controlled and offer reliability and capacity factors that renewables couldn't give in their wildest dreams.

We don't need to imagine. There are lots of rules around storage of slurry, spreading periods, weather impacting being allowed spread, buffer zones, etc. Plus the inspections by the department, Bord Bia, processors, EPA, councils, etc. Comparing septic tanks with slurry when they aren't comparable is foolish. Don't bother imagining the threat, quantify it there. Also, the slurry stuff is being restricted even more with more storage requirements and shorter spreading periods plus increased buffer zones.

The thing is we may not need the widgets, but you do need to eat. Hence why many towns and villages the length and breadth of the country have been decimated as there is no industry there.

Rural votes account for most of the population.

Taxpayers don't cover production costs. They are incentives for improving environmental practices. The funding was decoupled from productions around 30 years ago. The # of farms has no bearing on the funding. If 10 farms amalgamated then the payout would be the same as it's based on amount of hectares and the environmental schemes undertaken.

Less units may produce the same amount of food, but ya'd still have the same issues plus more people on social welfare and even less life in rural areas.

But the herd is static for over 40 years.

Profits by power companies are mental due to the way pricing works and that the unit price is dictated by the most expensive input. This is now gas. Though gas prices have fallen drastically, you are not seeing it in your bills. Comparing the millions in profits where there's a windfall tax coming to target with the 17000 odd dairy farmers who make a modest profit is some serious mental gymnastics. Remember too that the farm profits are 90% spent in the community and not lining shareholder pockets of power companies. We have good info on power company profits. Care to show the dairy farm profits (top tip, don't use figures from Teagasc as they don't account for labour or any land rental)?

Re the tillage element. Nitrate release happens when carbon levels in soil are reduced. Carbon holds Nitrogen in soil. When you plough or till you expose the carbon in the soil to oxygen in the atmosphere this gases off via oxidising bacteria to form CO2. The carbon gases off which leaves the nitrates that the carbon held to leach.

A typical Irish soil under permanent pasture is 9 or 10% organic matter. There's soils now under constant tillage that are coming back 2,3,4% organic matter. That's from the carbon lost to the atmosphere by tilling. There's no organic matter or carbon in the soils to hold nitrates. So it just leaches away.

We had some progress to promote min till and cover crops to build up of carbon and hold nitrates and not be at the mercy of the merchants and Vladimir Putin in not buying artificial nitrogen and holding onto more of the soil nitrates. But there's recent kick back by the conventional tillage community subversed by industry to stay the same.

Ballycarney and Athy districts have the highest nitrates release in the country. When you spray cides too you harm the soil life. That soil life is made up of carbon and nitrogen. It's two pronged damage from tilling and cides.

To hold Nitrate you need a constant plant and root in the ground, not be damaging the soil or life, keep that carbon in the soil.

Another point. A warming climate means higher nitrate release and lower soil carbon build up or growth. Higher temperatures. Ground dries up and air gets to soil carbon, organic matter, oxidises off to Co2 and the nitrates move.

There's a reason why we have the highest soil carbon stocks in Europe in agricultural soils along with Finland. Same reason why we are just behind Finland in water quality. Carbon stocks and farming systems.

Few schemes being rolled out to see can water quality be improved in different regions

This sounds similar to the successful project in Timoleague. This is the sort of stuff that needs to be pushed and not the "stick" approach many favour

Again pay farmers to do what they should be doing anyway

I don't see to many mom and pop wind farms but the home and farm solar is great although I don't see why farmers again should get a much great grant than everyone else

It is if you totally ignore the reality of economics.

There is no way that a farm of 70 acres being farmed by one farmer is unviable where simply muliplying by 10 to give you 700 acres farmed by 10 farmers somehow becomes viable. It`s economics 101. There are only two ways it becomes viably possible, intensive farming and all that would entail, or higher prices for the food produced.

Those are your two options.

Great post. You forgot to mention that the price dairy farmers are getting for milk at present is considerably down on this time last year. So much so that many potential new entrants have abandoned their plans. But you wouldn't know it at the till. The supermarkets etc continue to get their share (albeit a larger one given the price paid for production).

What are you scuttering about? Economics of scale? You must've failed Economics 101. It was already explained to you that the potential income is based on hectares. Whether it's 1x700 or 10x70, it's largely the same thing. If its something stupid like 700x1 you might have a point but small holding is long gone.

What difference does it make whether it's self employed or owner/employee? Are you suggesting that the hundreds of thousands of people (not just in agriculture) are doing something untoward by being self employed?

No 20x70 farmed by 10 farmers and all that goes with it is not as efficient as 1x700 with one farmer and 9 employees

Care to explain how you've come to that conclusion when you have a bunch of people who actually understand the economics of farming and associated regulations all demonstrating the exact opposite to be the case? You've never been on a farm, are unable to provide any factual information on dairy farmers profits or indeed losses and yet are speaking with some sort of authority that one model is better than another.

Let's suppose for a second that there is any truth (there isn't) to your ridiculous thesis. Take for example the beef industry in Ireland. 30 years ago, many villages and towns had their own abbatoirs run by their local butcher (minimal carbon footprint on transport, local benefits of jobs some as paye employees, some as self employed). A bunch of capitalist businessmen cried foul citing all sorts of issues and benefits of doing things their way. Massive factories scaled up, local abbatoirs scaled down. End result: 3 options exist for slaughter nowadays, all controlled more or less by one man. Most of the local butchers have vanished, a bunch of poorly paid (mostly overseas) workers slaughter the cattle in less friendly conditions and the quality of beef product available to the consumer has gone down, along with quantity but reciprocal to price. But it's all OK. That handful of workers are paye.

What difference does it make if they are paye, self employed or appointed by green fairies as long as they are paid fairly and contribute to society as required?

You appear to be confusing the number of households in Ireland with the number of domestic waste water systems other than those of waste water mains threated.

There are 2.125 million permanent houses in Ireland. 481,694 use domestic waste water systems (22%), of which 20% are deemed a risk to public health. The remains 78% use waste water mains. With water mains leaking 37% of treated drinking water, then I doubt waste water mains are any better. In all likelihood much worse.

In reality there is much more of a risk to public from waste water mains than there is from domestic waste water systems.

Well there you go 10x70acres with 10 farmers now becomes 1x700 with one farmer and 1 employee so of course that's more efficient only one set of payments we could probably also reduce staff in dept of Ag as way less bureaucracy and firm filling etc

I know it's 9 so called family farms gone but what makes them any different to other industry why should the taxpayer support them food can still be produced at the same price by the 700 maybe even cheaper was 8 less people have to be paid according to yourself

Yes but we could have that with way fewer and as I said the payments would now go to one farmer albeit the same amount but only one set of payments not 7 thereby saving a whole load of bureaucratic crap

No need to be unemployed full employment in Ireland now actually can't get staff

I have no doubt the same amount of farming output could be achieved in Ireland with way less farmers but bigger farms why should the taxpayer pay to keep people working at non viable jobs we don't do it for any other industry