3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

Not sure.

Was the dock ever actually used as a dock post Independence or was the damage done to it pretty much immediately?

Quite the opposite, the entire basin was used as a breakers yard until the Emergency, at which point the Marine Service (predecessor to the Naval Service) took it over in 1940.

Cork Harbour Oil Works Ltd also leased one of the Oil tanks on the site, and operated a small refinery. (Known locally as CHOWL). The other tanks were maintained for the use of the RN, but this did not impact activity in the Basin.

Lets not forget that the Treaty granted the Port to the RN for their use, and while they maintained a presence on Spike and the Harbour forts until 1938, the RN South Irish flotilla only went to anchor in the harbour, as Haulbowline was not included in the treaty. They shared their time between here and Berehaven.

There are photos of the entire basin dried out, with a stack of pre-war cargo ships being broken up en situ. Later on, Haulbowline industries would move to Passage West, upstream, and were notable for breaking up the Corvettes in the 70s. The problems started prior to the handing back of the treaty ports when everything on the western side of the basin was leased to Irish Steel in 1937 for a period of 99 years. Including the Pumphouse. When Irish Steel expanded and used the west wall for loading and unloading, it made it impractical to close either the Basin or drydock for any period. Indeed by 1954, the continued dumping of slag from the steel works into the basin became subject of a parliamentary question, where the minister assured all that this would have no impact on the function of the drydock at haulbowline. During the 50s, 60s and 70s there wasn't much happening in the basin anyway, apart from around the steam crane and the falls for maintenance of the smaller auxiliary craft then in use by the DoD.

We spent the 1940s with 2 small ships and 6 MTBs, and a range of other craft pressed into naval use, but not of significant size to take up much space. 1

The 1950s saw 3 Corvettes arrive, but not the 6 originally promised. They were larger than their main predecessor, Murchiu, which had been used to shell Liberty Hall in 1916, as Helga, which had an LOA just 47m. The 3 Flower Class Corvettes had an LOA of between 60 to 62.5m When they gradually fell apart they were replaced by the Ton Class minesweeper, at just 42.6m, and L.E. Deirdre, at 56,1m. The Ships spent most of their time when not on patrol on the Oil Wharf until the OPVs came along in the mid 70s, with the former civilian vessels Setanta (63.4m) and Ferdia (64m). By 1976 Ireland had 6 naval vessels in commission, with 3 more due in the following 5 years. There was a sudden impetus to get the Basin functioning as a proper maintenance facility. Unfortunately that coincided with further expansion at Irish Steel, who's cooling bays now extended parallel to the drydock, giving no scope for any sort of heavy work to be carried out there..

Its only after the Steel works shut down and space was created again that the NS could make plans for the Basin. Much work has been done in the last 2 decades upgrading workshops and warehouses, turning it from a bare quayside with a few sheds to a well equipped light maintenance facility.

Thanks for the info, so how/when was the caisson damaged, during the Steel period? And yeah the fear of letting "listed" mean it can never be upgraded has to be there given our usual approach. Or the costs for doing so would be significantly higher.

I recommend either "Haulbowline" by Daire Brunicardi or "Haulbowline revisited" by Tom Hamilton. That's where my info came from.

I genuinely don't think it was ever damaged. Once the sill became permanently fouled, it was just floated out of the way, where, without maintenance it's timbers rotted away, without maintenance the steel rusted, and it took on a list. I imagine it could be repaired, however, it is of considerable size and weight. The replacement caisson for an identical dock at devonport is ballasted with concrete and weighs 700T. It's supposed to just float upright to be moved into position, then its remaining ballast tanks are flooded, making a watertight seal. To lift the structure onto shore to assess it for refurbishment requires very specialised cranes. Lifts of this type have the potential to go very wrong. Better off towing it out of the basin where it has languished for generations, and either beach it at the camber or bring it to Rushbroke drydock, where it can be examined by engineers to see if it can be repaired economically, or measured accurately so it can be replaced.

Then buy a brand new one...

At sea it would float just below the surface making a nearly impossible target and of questionable value for training.. also towing something out an active channel that is in unknown state of repair is an accident waiting to happen. One wrong move, you've blocked the channel indefinitely, Ever Given style.

All to waste a few rounds of ammo.

And still nobody will contemplate national service....

Will all DF installations have to be shuttered and the Chinese building runways on Inch Beach for someone to act in a response appropriate to a crisis? Nay an emergency?

You can proclaim it as the solution all you want, it isn't and no political party would survive floating it let alone enacting it. You might as well keep posting that getting nuclear weapons is something to be contemplated.

Thats the case in the Air Corps. Anyone who can fly is operational, training being done overseas, then conversion course at home.

Everything is on pause until the dail resumes in late september....then maybe the dail committee will have a session where they ask someone "how can this be" before demanding someone uninvolved come before them to explain why, the person will refuse to come before them, and life goes on.

As a stop gap measure to get ships to sea could the state not do a deal with former crew such as ERAs to come back on a 5 year deal thats to good to turn down we say a big sign on bonus and maybe a completion bonus.

I know Dohvolle mentioned in the past with the current reinlistment scheme there is a problem with pensions and that has stoped people coming back. There must be someone that can step in and sort that out.

Lack of will, lack of interest, lack of concern…

When you look at the other departments that regularly get “top ups” through the year let alone their initial budgets, it says it all.

Maybe its a good thing this crisis is happenig as its only when the sh@t hits the fan when this state seams to react

Our neighbours are also in bother