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Nurse Lucy Letby found guilty of murdering seven babies

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    #752
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121021776#Comment_121021776

    I know it is wishful thinking but the friends and family (assuming they had no knowledge of or assisted in the crimes) should just be left alone.

    Someone who grew up with Letby or her ilk is going to go through the standard stages of grief and this is no different. She should have enough cop on to be quiet for the time being though rather than proclaim her psychological coping mechanism of denial to the world.



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    #753
    bejeezus
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭bejeezus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121028137#Comment_121028137

    Exactly!!



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    #754
    kirk.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121028203#Comment_121028203

    The expert I heard was on BBC radio

    Forensic psychiatrist or something similar



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    #755
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121028160#Comment_121028160

    I'm not sure that's necessarily the case, but at least you have admitted that it is an opinion unlike done other posters.



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    #756
    rogber
    Registered Users Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭rogber


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121027837#Comment_121027837

    As far as I know, Hitler wasn't a woman.

    Psycho men tend to like dogs. Putin another one.



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    #757
    rogber
    Registered Users Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭rogber


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121028137#Comment_121028137

    The birds in my garden say differently.



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    #758
    rogber
    Registered Users Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭rogber


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121027919#Comment_121027919

    It's been proved that some of these babies were poisoned, Letby is the only common link. She left notes in her room saying she did it. Deaths and serious incidents spiked massively when she was on the ward and dropped to almost nothing when she was removed. The evidence all points one way.

    The only people who cling to arguments of innocence are people with their own strange motives, it's similar to conspiracy theory thinking



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    #759
    stellamere
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭stellamere


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121021203#Comment_121021203

    I don't think there is any evidence of schizophrenia or other mental illness. A person suffering from positive or negative symptoms of schizophrenia would not be able to work as a nurse for anything like the time period involved without it being picked up on. On a slightly separate note I think it is interesting but unsurprising, that people are wringing their hands wondering how a seemingly ordinary young woman can do such a thing. People have no trouble in attributing evil to male perpetrators whereas its a mystery when it comes to females who perpetrate infanticide, and they are easily excused for doing so. The independent carried an article explaining that the patriarchy was responsible for our failure to understand how Letby could carry out such acts. The type of mental gymnastics required to take a topic such as this and warp it to somehow to fit a pet narrative is remarkable yet predictable.



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    #760
    Kaybaykwah
    Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121028551#Comment_121028551

    There is the freshly hatched case of a young woman in Ohio who left her 16 month old baby in a crib to go on vacation for ten days. The baby died and she is being held on a million dollar bail, accused of murder, etc…

    There is tons of that stuff.

    To top it off, the rates of mental illness due to negligence in early childhood is another great source of crime or persistent neglect over generations.



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    #761
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,134 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121028203#Comment_121028203

    Thats is the shocking bit , she used her knowledge and her training to harm and kill .We spend our working lives making sure and checking twice so we dont harm and her perversion of that is shocking .



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    #762
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121027671#Comment_121027671

    I dont think thats stronger evidence in the slightest. A "gotcha" moment is exactly that, definitive proof, such as a camera recording of one of the acts.


    There are probably others who were on duty for another selection of periods when an infant died, and I'm sure there is an intersection between the two sets of deaths.


    A million pieces of circumstantial evidence shouldn't really add up to anything more than 1 piece of circumstantial evidence, as by definition, they are circumstantial and, as we have seen in this case, its very hard to be statistically through when you start with an accused and work backwards.


    All that aside, there wouldnt appear to any anyone else in the frame, but again, thats not enough to prove she did it.



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    #763
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,134 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029763#Comment_121029763

    They did a spreadsheet of all staff on duty when an infant was harmed

    Out of 25 incidence the staff member with the highest number ( apart from Letby ) was 7 . Letby was on duty for all 25



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    #764
    kirk.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121028539#Comment_121028539

    I agree everything points to her and i believe she's guilty

    I won't be surprised if there's a twist in this story the evidence just doesn't seem sufficient to me anyhow for a safe conviction or one that can't be overturned



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    #765
    cap.in.hand.
    Registered Users Posts: 741 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029922#Comment_121029922

    Does it really matter ...her life and reputation is destroyed forever either way.



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    #766
    rogber
    Registered Users Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭rogber


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029763#Comment_121029763

    The arrows of evidence are pretty overwhelming even if nothing as obvious as caught on camera. She was the ONLY member of staff present during all the incidents, many of which it's been proved beyond doubt were deliberate. There is literally no one else who could have done it. We're not talking one case, we're talking dozens of cases. Just read up on it if you want the information. If you still want to wear your "Lucy is innocent" t shirt after reading the facts then clearly facts aren't what interest you.



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    #767
    Long Sean Silver
    Registered Users Posts: 569 ✭✭✭Long Sean Silver


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029922#Comment_121029922

    i agree 100% imo and i said this from the outset, she is most likely guilty. (i also think she has some undiagnosed mental illness btw).

    but that said there is no "smoking gun". a lot of the prosecution seemed to rest of circumstantial evidence, and i for one do not believe you should send someone away for life on circumstantial evidence (aka pointing arrows).

    how many of people have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, when a crime or incident was committed but were totally innocent? i had personal experience of this when i was working in London. a good friend almost ended up in a Police cell as a result.



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    #768
    kirk.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    It's a stretch to believe she could possibly be innocent

    The deaths were deliberate and required medical knowledge and she was ever present

    Still wouldn't surprise me if there was a challenge or further developments in this case

    Maybe there'll be further cases identified linked to her



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    #769
    Long Sean Silver
    Registered Users Posts: 569 ✭✭✭Long Sean Silver


    posters are on here saying there is "no evidence she was schizophrenic". indeed there is not.

    how could there? if she has not been properly assessed.

    i mean to correctly diagnose someone with possibly multiple personality issues &/or mental illnesses could take months, years. and would require a team of highly qualified psychiatrists, some of whom may not agree amongst themselves exactly what's wrong with her.



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    #770
    kirk.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    I read yesterday that the term munchausens by proxy isn't used now

    Forget the new name

    I assume none of this came into play because of her plea

    Another expert was saying that the tactic these medical killers mostly use after conviction is to hope for a retrial or similar to happen



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    #771
    stellamere
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭stellamere


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029453#Comment_121029453

    Good points. Kids can cope with quite alot, but neglect and abuse can perpetuate generations of mental illness and chaos. Some children these days don't stand a chance.



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    #772
    dbas
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭dbas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031803#Comment_121031803

    Closely linked to emotionally unstable personality disorder.

    (As stated previously I've no medical training-opinions my own)



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    #773
    Long Sean Silver
    Registered Users Posts: 569 ✭✭✭Long Sean Silver


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031803#Comment_121031803

    other than circumstantial evidence was there anything else eg DNA to link her with these deaths? i don't think so, and therein lies the grounds for an appeal imo.



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    #774
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,922 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121023201#Comment_121023201

    Most trials are made up of that type of evidence unless there is 100% direct evidence of the suspect. It is up to the prose utors to tie all the evidence together to prove there case. It's not like Perry Mason Matlock or CSI



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    #775
    Caquas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭Caquas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029763#Comment_121029763

    A million pieces of circumstantial evidence shouldn't really add up to anything more than 1 piece of circumstantial evidence, as by definition, they are circumstantial and, as we have seen in this case, its very hard to be statistically through when you start with an accused and work backwards.

    The lack of reasoning skills among posters defending Letby is depressing.

    It explains a lot about politics in this country.

    Fortunately, guilt only has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. There is no limit to the irrational doubts that are being mooted about this clear-cut and terrifying case.



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    #776
    dbas
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭dbas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031661#Comment_121031661

    Smoking gun? I'm all for fair trials and I firmly believe she had one. .

    Firm evidence..

    Damaged diaphragm in newborn. (Surely a baby can't do that to themselves)

    Elevated insulin levels in blood ( proven that they insulin was not produced naturally)

    Air in bloodstreams (there's no alternative explanatory for this, other than air injection)

    Scientific evidence given by experts confirming the above, along with the other circumstancial evidence in the case proves how much of as scumbag this person is.

    Can you honestly say that Letby is innocent, and in the wrong place and wrong time? If so, have you alternative suggestions to explain the above?



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    #777
    stellamere
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭stellamere


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031775#Comment_121031775

    It a difficult one, but usually someone with a serious mental illness exhibits symptoms and is unable to function normally society. It's usually quite obvious. When someone isn't exhibiting signs or symptoms of mental illness then there is little to be gained by undertaking a psychiatric assessment.

    You might say that if murdering babies isn't some sign of a mental illness, then what is. I'm not really sure how to answer that but I would suggest that if her judgement was not impaired and she knew what she was doing was wrong, then it's down to a serious flaw in her character as opposed to an illness.



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    #778
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,922 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121026523#Comment_121026523

    No matter how small something is to happening it can still happen. As if you take your eye off the thing you are trying to do be it getting a question wrong in a quiz, Trump winning, or in this case not cross all your T's or dotting your I's and someone getting off on a technically



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    #779
    dbas
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭dbas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031925#Comment_121031925

    I have to assume the defence team at least considered the possibility of an 'insanity plea' and had her analysed professionally prior to trial. Any results of that analysis viable to their case could have been brought to trial and would have been a slam dunk (not guilty by reason of insanity)

    Instead they called a plumber to the stand....



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    #780
    Long Sean Silver
    Registered Users Posts: 569 ✭✭✭Long Sean Silver


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031918#Comment_121031918

    i agree they would appear to be damning evidence that those babies were murdered/died of unnatural causes. i'm not disputing that. i dont think anyone is tbh. the spike in deaths in that hospital was alarming and led to her arrest.

    was she the only person to have treated those babies, or is it possible someone else could have done so? could she have been set up? you might answer "WTF?", but if you faced losing your liberty for the rest of your life then i'm sure you might want them answered.

    i see now one of the directors of the hospital in question has decided it's best to kick back and enjoy his retirement, https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12449067/175-000-year-medical-director-Lucy-Letbys-hospital-caught-blame-game-not-stopping-killer-nurse-sooner.html



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    #781
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,922 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121027052#Comment_121027052

    But you ain't the average boardsie and know loads



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