Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Are serious insults illegal?

  • 26-08-2023 8:08pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,718 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    Just reading another thread and someone mentioned her friend on a bus in her 20's, some guy told her she was the ugliest women he ever saw.

    That is awful and shows you what kind of loser he was but I think you should end up in court for something like this, do you agree?


    why should anyone be allowed say something so hurtful to someone?


    has anyone ever been in court over something like this?

    You would love to see the person explaining themselves to a judge about what they said.



«134

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,066 ✭✭✭con747


    Why, maybe she was the ugliest woman they ever saw. You must have had a sheltered upbringing if you think that requires a court appearance OP.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,026 ✭✭✭0ph0rce0


    GROT

    something unpleasant, dirty, or of poor quality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭Iguarantee


    If there were a law for this type of behaviour, what would the definitions of serious and insult be?

    An insult is subjective: some people could call me fat, others would say I’m in shape. How I perceive either comment dictates whether it’s an insult or not.

    Whether or not it’s serious is also subjective: telling someone their T-shirt is shite could be minor as it constitutes only part of their wardrobe telling them their clothes are shite covers more items of clothing, is it a more serious insult?

    Interesting topic.

    For me, if you’re going around intentionally insulting people, you’re an asshole and you should be more concerned with getting a smack than the legality of it.

    I’d hate to see a world where I say something that inadvertently insults someone and there’s some legal situation over it.


    It should never be illegal to tell someone what you think of them, good or bad.

    I play my cards fairly close to my chest, but I reserve the right to tell someone they’re an asshole. I’ll fight for that right.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Kurooi


    We should mandate everyone to have their ears filled with wax, so they never hear a hurtful boo boo word



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,868 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    "What is defamation?

    To take a case for defamation, you must show that the statement you are complaining about was ‘published’ to at least one other person. The ‘one other person’ cannot only be the person who is taking the complaint.

    ‘Published’ includes any type of communication, for example:

    • Conversation with another person
    • Comments made on social media
    • Newspaper articles
    • Blog posts
    • Speeches

    The ‘defamatory statement’ must also be something that a reasonable person would think injures your reputation.

    The person or organisation that made the statement can defend their actions as described below.

    Defences to defamation

    The Defamation Act 2009 sets out defences and privileges against a legal action for defamation.

    The statement is true

    A statement is not defamatory if it is true or substantially true. The onus of proving that the statement is true rests on the person defending the action (the person who made the statement).

    Even if the statement is untrue, it is only defamatory if it damages the reputation of the person making the complaint."

    As usual it comes down to finding a Reasonable Person to agree with you.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,381 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    No. But if that person then started saying that about her online and started some sort of campaign against her due to his percerption of her ugliness, then she could probably go the harrassment route. But there's none of the specific grounds for hate type speech there. A comment is just a comment. Nothing can be done, nor should it. People need to get thicker skin in general.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,085 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    They wouldn't hear compliments either.

    You could say that "you are 3 standard deviations below the mean on the normalised pulchritude scale". If the object of your insult makes an intelligent response you could follow up by noting the greater importance of intellect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,868 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Pulchritude sounds (to my ears) as if it should describe something ugly. But it actually mean Beauty.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,890 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    unfortunately (and fortunately) you cannot prosecute someone Just For Being An Arsehole. at times you might like to, though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,599 ✭✭✭newmember2


    I'm insulted with this thread so will be pressing charges.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    I've seen some shocking examples of defamation in a particular section on the boards forum and all by the same poster who seems to be immune from mod action. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see one of his victims take action some day.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    The prick deserved a smack.

    And since the law says you can't do that, then yes, the law should take responsibility then.

    Is there not anything like breach of the peace or something? Anything to stop someone from provoking the other into violence (even if it doesn't absolve the violent one)?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,718 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    so what if she was? why say that to someone? you dont know the effects it will have, it could easily make someone suicidal. I havent had a sheltered life at all. what woold you do if someone said that to your sister in front of you?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,718 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    It is an offence to use threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour in a public place with the intention of breaching the peace.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,718 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    I remember reading before that in Germany you can get in trouble for having a verbal argument with someone, a pro footballer was in such a situation with an old man and got fined 30,000 euro for it, the more you earn, the more you get fined.

    my example is far worse in my opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,718 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    There is a big difference in telling someone they are an a$$hole and telling someone you dont even know that she is the ugliest woman you ever saw, for no other reason that to make fun of her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,066 ✭✭✭con747


    You most certainly have led a sheltered life if you think that is an insult requiring a court appearance. Maybe you should have posted in the be nice forum.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,718 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    why don't you answer the question?

    In a civilized society anyone who says something like that to someone should be punished.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,868 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,066 ✭✭✭con747


    So, if it was the truth and they were the ugliest woman they ever saw they should be punished for telling the truth. Now there's an idea, lets punish everyone for telling the truth. Goodbye.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,718 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    You still didnt answer the question.

    most people figure out you cant go around saying whatever you think, they usually figure this out around age 5 id say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    An ounce of breeding is worth a ton of feeding.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,868 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    This contribution made by you on that thread, while it is your honest opinion, you could have refrained from publishing it. It is out of kilter with your concern for womankind in your OP here.

    "To be honest I always assume women with all this cosmetic surgery are easy. saw a group lately, in their 20s, all lips done, boob jobs, lashes, tan, one was wearing what looked like a bra in the pissing rain. They thought they were the best thing since sliced bread but any guy with his head screwed on wouldnt go near them in my opinion."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,718 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    Big difference, I would never say that to a persons face.

    Also why say womankind? if someone said to a man that he is the ugliest man they ever saw, I still feel the same about punishment for whoever makes the insult.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,868 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    No difference in law. You published it online.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,718 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    I didnt target anyone in particular. You know its different.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,761 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    If it's only verbal, and it would go to court for whatever reason, ( a bored judge ) than it'll be hard to prove, it would be one word against the other. Reliable witnesses would probably not be around in such a setting.

    One good answer to a serious verbal insult is, to say, that I've been called a lot worse by a lot better people than yourself. And if that's not enough, the next answer would be, that we all live under the same sky, but don't have the same horizon.

    :-)



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,066 ✭✭✭con747


    How is that in any way comparable to someone who said someone is the ugliest woman they ever saw.

    "Sgt Griffin said Mr Burke was “shouting and screaming largely unintelligible insults in regards to transgenderism, that garda members should be ashamed of it, and there was a comment about going to Tallaght to deal with proper criminals”."

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Lochlan Lemon Topic


    Any such case would be thrown out of court.

    Now, if it was continuous harassment over a period of time, that would be different.

    But based on current legislation calling someone the ugliest person you've ever seen is not a crime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,292 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    OP, you are the ugliest person I've never seen.

    Because you think it's ok go go around telling lies so as not to hurt someone's feelie-weelies. IMHO that is an extremely ugly attitude, and far worse that anything related to visual perception.



    Go on .. take me to court!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    They’re comparable on the basis that the OP asked the question has anyone ever been in Court over something like what they describe in the opening post. They have, plenty, and generally on the basis that their behaviour constitutes a public order offence. Simeon was just the most recent example I could think of.

    6. —(1) It shall be an offence for any person in a public place to use or engage in any threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour with intent to provoke a breach of the peace or being reckless as to whether a breach of the peace may be occasioned.

    https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1994/act/2/enacted/en/print.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,066 ✭✭✭con747


    Comparing a raving nut job screaming and shouting abuse at Gardai to a person calling someone ugly is stretching it a bit now!

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    It’s really not, it’s exactly the same in terms of the offence, particularly if a person is reckless as to whether a breach of the peace may be occasioned - nothing has to occur, just the possibility of a breach of the peace as may be deduced by the Court is sufficient to find a person guilty of the offence.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,066 ✭✭✭con747


    Try bringing a case like the OP is upset about to a court, see what a judge says.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.





  • I doubt you would make it past the courts registrar never mind hearing a judges opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    It’s been done? It’s just generally not reported on because it’s low-level stuff. Judges don’t tend to look on it favourably if that’s what you’re thinking. I already did show a case where it went to Court, and I can’t find the case where an idiot gave a bus driver the middle finger, got done for it, best I could do was a case where an idiot gave Gardaí the middle finger, over 10 years old now so not of much use -

    https://archive.ph/J0cnZ

    The OP doesn’t seem upset at all, they were just asking the question. It would be up to Gardaí to investigate the complaint, if a complaint was made to them. The fact that people don’t make a complaint, doesn’t mean they can’t.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,066 ✭✭✭con747


    You need to keep on looking, your into 2008 now. Where does calling someone ugly figure in any of the links you have posted.

    "When Gardai approached Nugent he was very aggressive and abusive. Garda McGrath said there were a lot of people including young children in the area."

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I don’t need to keep looking at all, providing you with the links was a courtesy, not an obligation. You seem to be missing the point that the offence is constituted by the circumstances - insulting behaviour in a public place, which could potentially cause a breach of the peace is sufficient for a conviction.

    It’s not simply based on the nature of the insult used. You originally only asked how the original example I used was comparable, and I demonstrated how it was comparable, but now you seem to be looking for a case where the insult is exactly the same, which is missing the point of the offence.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,066 ✭✭✭con747


    Take a journey on a late night bus in Dublin or the Luas. If you think what the OP stated was worthy of being brought to court wasting the time of the Gardai and Judicial system well then this country is rightly fcuked. Disengaging.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Probably for the best that you’re disengaging tbh because I didn’t say anything one way or another about whether what the OP outlined was worthy of being investigated, let alone brought to Court. The OP asked a question, I provided an example, then you asked how it was comparable, and I provided the basis for how it was comparable. I explained that it happens plenty, but the cases are rarely reported on because it’s low-level stuff.

    I don’t need to take a journey anywhere, that’s likely to be as productive as me suggesting you should spend some time in your local Courthouse and you’ll witness some absolute mindless nonsense and wonder how it made it to Court, but it does, and the country still isn’t fcuked.

    Like I said - just because someone doesn’t make a complaint, doesn’t mean they can’t.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,066 ✭✭✭con747


    Yawn....

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Lochlan Lemon Topic


    I'm a solicitor and would love a client accused of the above.

    Calling someone the ugliest person you've ever seen is not a crime. Dickhead behaviour? Absolutely...a crime? No, or at least I'd love to argue the case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,718 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    I wouldn't be surprised if it is taken far more seriously in years to come.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,066 ✭✭✭con747


    😂🤣😂

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    It’s a short thread, but I don’t recall saying that calling someone the ugliest person they’ve ever seen was a criminal offence. I do remember giving examples of people convicted of public order offences though for insulting or threatening behaviour in a public place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,718 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    Id say you would have no problem with someone calling your kids the ugliest kids they ever saw? 🤔



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,066 ✭✭✭con747


    They probably are but who gives a fcuk. A lot of people on here with thin skin.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,718 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    You just want to fight for your right to insult so called ugly people?



  • Advertisement
Advertisement