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Double yellow lines for taxi pick-up

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    #92
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,959 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011227#Comment_121011227

    So you don't think someone who is in traffic, stopped at a light, and doesn't move for no reason (ie: struggling to get into gear, learner, etc) and just sits there, you don't consider them parked? Park - Keep Stationary, I don't see the confusion here. Granted, you'd more likely issue a fine for obstruction rather than parked, but as per the RTA a person in lane, stopped at lights who doesn't move when they can (the words I added were just to clarify they were stopped at lights in traffic) is parked. Someone who does move when they can is not parked. Seems straight forward to me.

    Even if you remove "when they can", if they just sit there with an empty road in front of them with the legal obligation to drive but doesn't, then they are parked (via keeping stationary) and blocking a lane. They're keeping their car stationary and blocking the people behind them. This is separate to the issue of this thread, this is someone not moving after stopping in line at traffic. Whether the car is running or not, if it's stationary it's parked.

    Just so happens double yellows are usually on roads where there isn't room to park which would cause traffic behind to have to go into the oncoming lane. That's why you can't park there. And park is defined as keep stationary, so what the taxi driver did was park. No ambiguity there. The law shouldn't have to specify that if it's illegal to park then you have to move or just not stop in the first place.

    Re: Bus's, they have specific bus stops especially in the city. Country, there are specific stops but I still see them stop on narrow roads. Too dangerous to overtake but also nothing I can do about it, just like the taxi drivers. Well, not anymore anyway. And yes, the bus that stops to pick people up is parked. Doesn't matter if it's for 10 seconds or 10 minutes, it's stopped and kept stationary, it's parked.

    Maybe people are inferring one must leave the vehicle in order for it to be parked? To me, you're stopped at lights because you can't proceed and once you can proceed you do. Stopping to pick fares up is parking because there's nothing stopping you from proceeding. That's the way I interpret it anyway and I honestly don't believe I'm wrong, and was never pulled on it in 10ish years of ticketing.



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    #93
    Schorpio
    Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭Schorpio


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121013787#Comment_121013787

    It has nothing to do with what I think.

    All I'm saying is that the definition in the Act is silent regarding any context. It doesn't say for how long you need to be stationary, or whether you can be in traffic, or not. It literally gives no context. That's why the definition is ambiguous. Therefore, we could go back and forth until the end of time, but neither one of us could be definitively correct.

    In my own opinion, the is 100% a difference between stopping and parking. Our UK counterparts would agree with this, that's the reason they have yellow lines and red lines (i.e. to create a distinction between 'no parking' and 'no stopping'). We took a different path, and it has led to ambiguity in the system.



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    #94
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,959 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Well we're not in the UK and the legislation is perfectly clear to me: Park - keep stationary.



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    #95
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,954 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Taxi's stop everywhere to pick others up, I'm guessing the Taxi driver told the cop to get lost, and the man child cop gave him a ticket.



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    #96
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121014070#Comment_121014070

    You don’t get to break the law without consequence just by repeatedly breaking the law.



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    #97
    Schorpio
    Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭Schorpio


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121013944#Comment_121013944

    Indeed we are not, but we do have something similar in relation to clearways, as per S.I. No. 182/1997 - Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997 -

    S40(2) A vehicle may not be stopped or parked in a clearway during the period indicated on the information plate.

    Note the language "stopped or parked". So our legislation would seem to recoginse that there is a distinction between stopping and parking. Unhelpfully though, the difference isn't defined anywhere (that I know of).

    On that basis I would infer that a taxi stopping in a clearway is a no-no. But stopping on double yellows is fair game (presuming you're not causing an obstruction etc.).



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    #98
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Two interesting scenarios today - any views on legality?

    1) Ignorant tosser from CaseyGroup.ie blocking the pedestrian section of the crossing, because he was hugely surprised to find busy traffic on one of the main arterial routes into the city at rush hour. Is it explicitly illegal?

    20230823090108_205182A.MP4_snapshot_00.38.629.jpg

    2) Tesco home delivery van stopping on timed Clearway during evening rush hour to make a delivery. I know there's an exception to the double-yellow laws for 30 minutes loading or unloading, but no exception for Clearways afaik.

    20230823171623_205220A.MP4_snapshot_00.43.247.jpg




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    #99
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,275 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963706#Comment_120963706

    What do you mean by your warning light? Do you mean your hazard lights? Using those to indicate you are stopping in the side of the road is a separate offence. The appropriate light is the indicator, presumably the left one unless you were crossing lanes. Stopping on double yellows to effect a delivery or to pick up a passenger is not “parking” and is not an offence unless another restriction applies such as being in a mandatory bus lane, within 5m of a junction or a crossing place or a school zone or most commonly a clear way during the clear way hours. This last one is broken very frequently and might very well be the problem. Please post. A street view of where you stopped.



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    #100
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,959 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Re: Pictures above -

    1: Illegal. Unless it was clear to go all the way through the intersection, Caseyprick shouldn't have gone passed the first solid white line. I suspect this is a typical thing as most people don't look beyond the car in front of them. So like you said, caught when the lights changed before it could go.

    2: I'm not getting the clearway bit, seems to be parked in a parking space? Or is it a cycle lane at certain times? Also looks to be plenty room between it and the centre lines. But illegal if it is a timed clearway.

    I'm not gonna comment if it's "right" or not. I'm not gonna question whether the logitstics of Tesco home delivery should take into account areas with timed clearways (I'm of the opinion that yes, they should). That's the law and it's black and white, no matter how many try to confuse the issue. But we can't even get people to indicate, so what hope have we for the lesser known (but should still be known) laws...



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    #101
    tesla_newbie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965439#Comment_120965439

    The guard who issued the points was an insufferable jobsworth who decided to annoy a man trying to earn a living but that’s the limit of some peoples ability, being a jobsworth



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    #102
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031997#Comment_121031997

    So despite the garda telling the OP to move on which the OP then ignored and encouraged passengers to get into his car, the garda is a jobsworth? And you know this, despite the OP being short on important details such as why the double yellows were there, etc (which usually indicates that there is a lot more to this than we've been told!)?



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    #103
    tesla_newbie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032020#Comment_121032020

    It’s about prioritising minor technical details over actual crime , low hanging fruit



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    #104
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032033#Comment_121032033

    The guy could have been blocking a busy bus lane for all we know but you seem to know that the garda was being a dick rather than the OP who was the one that ignored the garda's initial instruction!



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    #105
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,420 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031997#Comment_121031997

    Do you normally make up your mind about allegations of offences based purely on what the accused person chooses to tell you?



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    #106
    tesla_newbie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032063#Comment_121032063

    you also have no idea if “ he was blocking a bus lane “ so two can play at that game

    Taxi drivers don’t have a set route like bus drivers , their job involves thinking fast on a regular basis and a relatively sudden stop in order to pick up a passenger is one of them , I’ve no reason not to take the OP at face value and at the end of the day the outlined scenario could happen again to some other taxi driver and I’d take the same view

    the Garda was a jobsworth who would be better hobbling criminals rather than self employed people



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    #107
    tesla_newbie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032481#Comment_121032481

    i take all stories like this on forums at face value, I have no basis not to as I know nothing about the character of the person relaying the details



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    #108
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032730#Comment_121032730

    you also have no idea if “ he was blocking a bus lane “ so two can play at that game

    But I didn't accuse the garda of being a jobsworth (nor did I call the OP a name). The OP failed to provide details as to why the garda took action against them. Silence tends to be deafening!

    Taxi drivers don’t have a set route like bus drivers , their job involves thinking fast on a regular basis and a relatively sudden stop in order to pick up a passenger is one of them , I’ve no reason not to take the OP at face value and at the end of the day the outlined scenario could happen again to some other taxi driver and I’d take the same view

    Despite what many of them appear to think, taxi drivers are subject to the road traffic laws. If that doesn't suit them then they should reconsider their career choice!

    the Garda was a jobsworth who would be better hobbling criminals rather than self employed people

    Again, name calling despite what we've been told. According to the OP, the garda told them to move on. The OP told us that they ignored the garda and it was then that the garda issued the fine. That makes me think that the garda offered leniency to the OP and it was the OP who basically stuck up their two fingers at the garda. That doesn't make the garda a jobsworth despite your daft interpretation of the event.



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    #109
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032733#Comment_121032733

    Ok then: I was there and saw it all. The OP was blocking an ambulance spot outside a busy hospital. Several ambulances were unable to transfer patients for urgent care until the OP drove off.

    I assume you'll take me at face value now given that you seem to naively believe everything you read.



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    #110
    tesla_newbie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032781#Comment_121032781

    If you want me to believe the OP is at fault in you’re fictional setting and will make you happy?, then be happy



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    #111
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032792#Comment_121032792

    Who else, other than the OP would be at fault for the OP parking on double yellows?



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    #112
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031385#Comment_121031385

    1) Yes, typical thing and not unusual at all unfortunately. It's funny how people come up with the 'I got caught' explanation, as if they're surprised that the green light turned amber, then red. It's fairly predictable that a green light is going to turn amber then red.


    2) Yes, it is a timed Clearway on Conyngham Road, for the morning and evening rush hours. I'm not sure what the solution is - maybe Tesco's route planning system should be taking such restrictions into account, or requiring the recipient to provide access to unloading space, in the car park perhaps.



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    #113
    tesla_newbie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032770#Comment_121032770

    i begin from the basis that forum users are providing accurate details, I’m in no position to know for sure but I’ve zero basis for believing that they are embellishing the truth , forum discussions are pointless if you doubt stories, lessons can be drawn based on details without being sure of the absolute reliability of the story teller in a forum setting, I don’t know the OP but can draw conclusions from the details and said details could apply in other scenarios involving different people



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    #114
    tesla_newbie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032800#Comment_121032800

    It’s not about the OP being at fault, the guard should have used his discretion, instead he opted to be a jobsworth



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    #115
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121034143#Comment_121034143

    The OP told us that the garda did use their discretion by telling them to move on. The OP then told us that they ignored the garda.

    What should the garda have done? Ignored the OP parking on double yellows? The fact that the OP didn't tell us why the garda wanted them to move on (or that they weren't blocking the lane or traffic) would suggest that there was a valid reason for the garda to ask them to move on rather than the garda being a jobsworth. However, you want to believe that the garda was being a dick and that the OP isn't keeping information from us (despite the OP not answering those questions before they disappeared from boards).



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    #116
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,959 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Taxi drivers don’t have a set route like bus drivers , their job involves thinking fast on a regular basis and a relatively sudden stop in order to pick up a passenger is one of them

    But it doesn't give them permission to break road traffic legislation. In fact, PSV drivers are expected to be even more aware of all the rules and laws and drive better than most people, because their livlihood depends on keeping their licence. The only people who can break road traffic laws are members of AGS, fire service, ambulance, coast guard and military (and related services if applicable), and only in specific circumstances. Everyone else, especially PSV drivers, have to obey whether you agree to the laws or not. You agree to abide by them when you apply and subsequently get a driving licence or operators licence.

    Country needs to introduce a renewal course, I'd be for having to sit it every 5 years. And AGS/the courts should be able to direct people to resit their driving tests too.



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    #117
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,872 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Whatever about the rights and wrongs of the OP's case I think it might be worth considering some of the issues involved a little more generally.

    Both taxis and delivery services are an integral part of trying to persuade people to reduce their use of private cars.

    Perhaps we need to take a closer look at how rules and regulations could be changed to make their operations easier.

    That's not to say that anyone should be given carte blanche to cause obstruction.



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    #118
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,959 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    There are taxi bays and set down areas for deliveries. But as usual they're taken up with selfish individuals who think they should be allowed to park there. So still not the law at fault, still humans to blame! Can you imagine the reaction of some people on here if you even thought of issuing tickets to these people...



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    #119
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035852#Comment_121035852

    Whether they drive their own car, or are driven in someone else's car, they're still in a car! There are no congestion or environmental benefits so why exactly should we be encouraging taxi use?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #120
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,872 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036062#Comment_121036062

    There are taxi ranks but there seem to be less of them than before.

    On the delivery I was thinking more of the home side of things.

    I would support issuing tickets to offenders.



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    #121
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,872 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036233#Comment_121036233

    I think if someone gives up the car and cycles,walks or uses public transport combined with occasional taxi use there are clear congestion and environmental benefits.



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