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Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,910 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Hilarious, so no one mentioned pure bloodlines except you so?

    and the other poster uses emotive language according to you! Oh dear.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,461 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Oh dear indeed . Can you state exactly what you are asking ? All I see is you rambling .

    And yes it has been mentioned before . You find it ...



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,910 ✭✭✭enricoh


    You made the claim - you find it, thanks in advance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,461 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    It has been deleted . .

    If you want to discuss it in detail I am sure someone on the Conspiracy thread will oblige .

    You are welcome ;)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,910 ✭✭✭enricoh


    So, first I'm rambling, then second I should head to the conspiracy thread.

    Epic stuff goldengirl, ta



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,461 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Just replying in the manner that I was addressed , enricoh !

    As I said , you are welcome ;)



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    29k dwelling completions last year.

    44k migrants allowed in this year. From France alone.


    What would you call such a phenomenon? Year after year after year after year, what would you call that trend in population?



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    "described overcrowding in jails as the worst he has seen in more than 32 years"

    "This level of overcrowding only increases levels of violence"

    "said a consequence of an increased population is more people going to prison and the Department of Justice has not planned properly for this."

    "The POA described the current penal policy as one of "Pack 'em, Stack 'em and Rack 'em", with single cells doubled up, mattresses on floors, and the prisoner population going through the roof with the only solution appearing to be the purchase of bunk beds."


    Sounds awful familiar. Replace a few words here and there, and you could be talking about housing, healthcare, education and so.


    Speaking of healthcare..

    "The emergency department of University Hospital Galway was found to be “grossly overcrowded".

    "The Hiqa report stated that the closure of a number of local nursing homes was also impacting on the ability to transfer patients out of the hospital."

    "There were 11 active nursing homes converted into accommodation for Ukrainian refugees before the practice was banned, it has emerged."

    "this decision would be reviewed “given the changing situation with regard to accommodation for persons under temporary protection”."


    Seems to be a very common thread between all these issues that keep mentioning the effects of overcrowding.

    Post edited by hymenelectra on


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,375 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I'm all for immigration in normal circumstances but we don't have that here right now.

    The crucial services as mentioned earlier are horrendous. We don't have the houses required either.

    As I said previously it's not fair to the people living here and I'm including immigrants already residing here in that and its not fair to anybody coming in either.

    We need to get our **** together. Unfortunately it's the ordinary hard working people that are the big problem here because they let everything slide instead of voting out the usual politicians who'll do nothing about it



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,461 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Yes. I get that you are genuine, ee.

    We had this discussion today at home.. Who are we going to vote for and more importantly who not!

    Defo not this crowd or this mix..



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  • Registered Users Posts: 38,375 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Well I won't tell you who to vote for. All I'd say is give somebody else a chance if they seem like they genuinely care and intend to sort things out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,461 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Oh we intend to, don't worry . Floating vote in this house always .



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra



    It seems that rather than refuse entry on the grounds of sheer lack of housing, the government is going to allow more and more and more people to arrive, even if all there is for them is a tent.

    There is no publicly acceptable reason for this. Yet reason there must be.

    As unpalatable and icky as the truth may be, we are collectively going to face the inevitable conclusion of overpopulation. It's going to happen because there is no other way this can end.

    Prisons are way beyond capacity, healthcare is way beyond capacity, schools are way beyond capacity, housing is way beyond capacity.

    The secondary effects are loss of staff. A double whammy.

    Depopulation is coming soon and it will be painful because it has been outright and purposefully ignored for so long.

    Or depopulation is coming later when it's even more painful.

    The equivalent of approximately seven limerick cities have arrived into Ireland over the last decade.

    They have not built seven extra limerick cities.

    They are never going to build seven extra limerick cities.

    The only option is depopulation, and I have outlined a wide range of relatively easy, relatively quick, relatively fair options to achieve it.

    The only question is when it happens. Sooner, or later?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,614 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The depopulation you are hoping and praying for would involve Ireland's youngest, brightest and best leaving the country, whilst older and / or less capable people remain behind (that has been the pattern of emigration for many decades). In what way would that be good for Ireland?



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    I'm as much hoping and praying for depopulation as I would to see gravity in effect.

    And no, it doesn't involve irelands best and brightest leaving.

    On the contrary, the best and brightest are already starting to leave due to the effects of overpopulation.

    Ask some of 89% of youth up to age 24 that are stuck living at home with parents, or the 70% up to age 29. Ask them how long they're planning to stay.

    A fools game is all this overpopulation scheme is, and with all its expected results.

    On the otherhand, why not continue the demonstrably fruitless narrative about building more homes, prisons, health capacity year in and year out, while every single worsening trend is down to the increasing population that nobody ever mentions?

    That's worked great so far, hasn't it?

    Let's check back in another 700k people and see how wonderful things are, okay?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,614 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Every time the country has depopulated (the entire 1950s, the entire 1980s) it has involved people in their 20s and 30s leaving, often very well educated, whilst middle aged and older people (their parents and grandparents) remain behind. Losing half a million of such people to supposedly free up housing capacity would spell disaster for the country and the economy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    Clearly we need more immigrants to build more housing!



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    You are ignoring practically every current problem and it's easily detectable cause in order to talk about wildly unrelated events from the last century.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Yeah it's been working swell so far. And more doctors and nurses for healthcare, that's working swell too. And more teachers, that's been working swell too. And so forth.


    The whole thing has turned out to be one giant decade long fib. Embarrassing.

    Not to say it won't end up at the inevitable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,614 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Depopulation of the country has always been accompanied by deep recession and widespread poverty. The idea that the country could depopulate by losing half a million of its brightest and best and still have a successful economy is far fetched - who would do all the jobs that would have been vacated?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...as others have stated, de-populate, in whatever way you try this, would more than likely lead to a catastrophic economic crash, making our current problems much much worse, the main reasons for our seriously dysfunctional property markets has been the widescale move towards financialisation of our markets, which in turn has lead to a collapse in our abilities to keep up with our demands in this critical need, this can be easily seen in data....

    ...i.e. our property issues are more to do with the fact our abilities to build collapsed post 08, and less to do with our growing population....



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    There's no point talking about an economic crash when the entire purpose of the economy has disappeared already.

    The societal implications of this migrant-fuelled economy are already deeply detrimental. The rapidly increasing "gdp" is, as said, a symptom of overpopulation.

    In other words, the economy is not fit for purpose.


    As to the the point on there not being enough this and that, in itself a direct consequence of overpopulation, well all that proves is that we are beyond capacity. And nothing more.

    If x amount of homes, evidently, from years upon years of experience, cannot be built to satisfy this imported population, then it can't be done. It is what it is.

    Therefore, please stop importing more and more people, Mr government.


    Again I'll use the same tidbit of information. 29k dwelling completions, 44k French passport holders in same period. French alone. Pick any year from the last near decade and you'll see precisely the same number disparancy. Extend that to every myth of migrant-led population growth, from "it'll save the pensions" to "it'll improve healthcare" to "imported builders will solve housing".

    It's demonstrable insanity.

    Pleading for more of the same, and/or remonstrating that if we change course will somehow make it worse is definitive pyramid selling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    What the graphs above show is:

    Even at the unsustainable peak in 2005, about 90,000 housing units were built just before the crash. If 300,000 new PPS numbers are being issued each year then, assuming three individuals to a housing unit, either

    a) not enough homes would be built.

    b) more people are arriving that can be housed.

    And this is assuming a couple of things.

    1. That 90,000 housing units can be built year after year.
    2. That these units will on average hold three individuals (probably not the case given the move to apartment construction and smaller dwellings).

    The reality of course is that we will probably never build 90,000 dwellings a year. This was an aberration due to the financial markets pre-crash and only occurred one year in the history of the State. I would challenge anyone to find this level of building on a sustainable basis in any country as a proportion of their existing housing stock.

    And also, it is not clear that we necessarily want our cities expanding at this rate. Will other aspects of infrastructure keep up or will we end up with ghettos and social problems?

    The reality is that our inward migration level is way beyond our ability to expand housing and probably always will be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    It's gobsmackingly simple to understand.


    Further to the point of the failure of this migrant-fueled economy, a plucked definition.

    "Economic growth increases state capacity and the supply of public goods. When economies grow, states can tax that revenue and gain the capacity and resources needed to provide the public goods and services that their citizens need, like healthcare, education, social protection and basic public services."


    Clearly, I repeat, clearly, this false economy is delivering precisely the OPPOSITE of its purpose.

    Terrible ideas lead to terrible results. No surprises.

    Overpopulation has led us to where we are. Depopulation is the only solution.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Homes can be built, government just haven't bothered.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Well we could build underwater city domes in theory too. The more salient point is that we don't.

    It's funny how the government hasn't bothered to build more homes, yet has bothered to import more and more people year on year.

    Very "funny".



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...fcuking hell, how do people believe this bullsh1t!

    ...once again, our property issues are largely due to the financialisation of our economy, primarily our property markets, with such an approach, the ultimate aim becomes more so about maximizing financial gains of such assets, by inflating such prices, than actually building and creating such assets, as the risks involved in creating such assets is greater, hence our current outcomes, i.e. hyper inflated property prices, and the inability to build the appropriate amount for current demands....

    ..again, by advocating for de-population, you re actually advocating for a significant slump in the economy, possible even an economic crash, as less and less economic activities can take place, due to the fact....

    ...this would also more than likely lead to further aging issues, as most advanced economies are now experiencing this problem, which in turn leads to further social and economic dysfunctions, for example forcing the increase in retirement age, in order to maintain some sort of social and economic functioning, so de-populate, and you ll be basically forced to work later in life, into your 70's, possible even 80's, in order to access your pension!



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    All I'm seeing is you vouching for a pyramid scheme. "If we don't get more people in, the pyramid will collapse". Yes, it will. It also IS collapsing anyway. That's what makes it a con.


    If x homes can't be built, then x amount of people shouldn't have been imported. Year after year.

    As to the financialisation and hyper inflation of life-necessary assets, you're right. However the part you're missing is that in order to hyper-inflate, one must introduce hyper-demand. And guess how that has been done?

    As said, gobsmackingly easy to understand.

    And again as said, the "economy" is demonstrably a failure in its purpose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...jesus christ, where is your head, serious!

    ...again, financialisation, is ultimately leading to hyper inflation of our property markets, not our rising population! de-populate, and you d still have this problem, irish born citizens can no longer afford to purchase and meet their property needs, largely due to these activities, i.e. our ability to build has collapsed, at the height of the last boom we were building 90,000 units, we re now struggling to get to 30,000, i.e. virtually nothing to do with rising population, and virtually everything to do with the fact, our ability to build has collapsed!

    ...again, please present your own data to support your arguments, as i have with mine....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    My data is precisely the same as yours, the difference is that you are ignoring the actual implications and logical conclusions of the information.


    Here's the question to answer: HOW have life-necessary assets been inflated?

    Looking at the information, it is has been the introduction of a gigantic increase in population tied with an entirely insufficient supply of societal infrastructure.

    You can't hyper inflate without hyper demand.


    When 29k homes are built in a year, and 44k French people alone are allowed move here.....that's no accident.

    Overpopulation.



This discussion has been closed.
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