Calling yourself British.

It might be to do with the fact that The UK isn't really a happy union at the moment. The Scots and Welsh are pretty opposed to the government for the last decade. The UK nations aren't equal partners, they're colonies of England. Its England's union. The capital is in England, the Parliament, the monarch, most government departments, are all based in England. Northern Ireland unionists are one of the few groups outside England who are happy to be a colony of England.

British could refer to the cultures in the UK. But even that's all about England and they're pretty disinterested in the other cultures outside of England. The languages in the UK are a good example. They have some really interesting language like Welsh, Scots, Scottish gealic, Irish in NI, and then some others like Cornish and I think Manx is extinct now. But your average English person who identifies as British would never dream of learning any of their British languages.

One of my mates expressed a negative attitude towards Welsh. They said the Welsh just use the language to piss off the English. They reckoned they just started speaking Welsh in the pub to make the English feel unwelcome. It never even occurred to them to learn a few basic Welsh phrases to help them get along with the locals. Everyone knows how to say hello, and how to order a beer for holidays in Spain, but they hadn't thought of showing the same courtesy for their own British culture.

If they were genuinely interested in the other nations, then it would make more sense to refer to themselves as British. But I think some English people who consider themselves British, have contempt for the other UK nations. They see them as decorations for England. Just my opinion.

Some English people seriously maintain that anyone born in England with both parents from either Ireland, Scotland or Wales is therefore English, whilst saying those with both parents being from Continental Europe, ie: Greek, Spanish, Italian aren't English.

Basically if you look English you're English, your parents even might be French or German, Dutch, Danish, / North West European in looks, you're English. 🤣

If your parents are both Eastern or Southern European background, that's often noticeably different, often the parents English language skills are not as proficient as perhaps NW Europeans would be.

In some ways it's not logical, but it's often popular opinion.

Honestly, I think they're very confused about their history, culture and ultimately their identity. That lack of curiosity, and engagement in their own history bugs me because the history is really rich.

Last weekend we were looking for a location for a family day out and by pure chance we ended up in the family home of Charles Trevelyan in Northumberland. Him from The Fields Of Athenry, "for you stole Trevelyan's corn". He was in charge of famine relief in Ireland during the famine. Once we clocked the name we were really curious about how they would report that bit of history. But they didn't even mention it.

I often think of a James Conolly quote about how "Ireland, as distinct from her people, is nothing to me". I'll put the full quote at the end. So we went to this house, and they completely ignored the history of the people who lived there. It's as if the fantastic house and grounds were the history, not the lives of the people.

I often think of that Conolly quote when I see politicians proclaim their love for the flag (Trump went through a phase of hugging the flag) Johnson talked about Britain during Brexit but couldn't give a shyte about the people of Britain.

The house and grounds were fantastically run with hours of family fun on the grass and in the forest. It was just a shame that they focused solely on the physical house rather than the people from the house. The land was gifted by William the Conquerer after 1066 so it had nearly a thousand years of history.

Connolly's quote:

"Ireland, as distinct from her people, is nothing to me; and the man who is bubbling over with love and enthusiasm for "Ireland," and can yet pass unmoved through our streets and witness all the wrong and the suffering, shame and degradation wrought upon the people of Ireland-yea, wrought by Irishmen upon Irish men and women, without burning to end it, is, in my opinion, a fraud and a liar in his heart, no matter how he loves that combination of chemical elements he is pleased to call Ireland.

I don't disagree with any of that. But I'm always shocked at how few people watch the really great documentaries on BBC4. It's where I get most of my British history.

I'd be delighted if there was more about medieval history in Ireland. The school version kinda jumps from Cú Chulainn to the Vikings and Brian Boru.

Oh I dunno, they love an old stately home visit over there, and tbf, the national trust keeps a lot of these old places in great condition. Maybe it's just cos I love buildings 😊

And of course, you have to remember, that name means nothing to them, we know it because of the famine and the song etc, that's not interesting for most of them.

The point about Northern unionists calling themselves British is true, of course, for the geographical reason you pointed out. But British is also used to mean the culture of Britian. It usually refers to England and its culture but it's definitely used as a cultural identifier.

Why northern irish unionist are so keen to identify with a culture that doesn't recognise them, is beyond me.

I was amazed as an Irishman in Glasgow years ago that there was so much animosity towards the English. A lot of Scot’s had a chip on their shoulder against the English. Much more than I’ve ever experienced in Ireland.

The British only identity in Northern Ireland is a bit cringe. They aren’t really considered British by the real British people from Britain (I.e the island of England, Scotland & Wales).

Same in Scotland they wouldn’t accept NI Sterling. Seemed ridiculous as it’s all sterling.

Yeah I don't disagree with any of that.

My family home is a few km from the Rock of Dunamase which is the very castle that was used as payment to the Normans when they were invited to fight in Ireland.

It was, by a team led by Alan Turing whose mother Ethel Stoney was from Tipperary.

I didn't know that. If they also cracked it independently in England then it's fair to celebrate it. If the Irish cracked the enigma code, after Poland but in a way that really affected the war, then we'd celebrate the shyte out of it.

Delighted to hear the bauld Turing had an Irish mother, by the way.

No, The enigma code was originally broken by Polish intelligence. They tried to share intelligence with British but were rebuffed. But the French were interested and they shared with them. When France fell their intelligence agencies passed on the information to the British.

That's not to say that Bletchley park didn't do important work. The codes changed over time and they developed a computer to help test various codes. But it is a rare UK history book or TV program that gives any credit where it belongs, with the Poles.

My point wasn't to denigrate the work of Bletchley park, it was rather to show how writing history allows the UK to appropriate any positives to itself while ignoring the negative, such as Trevallyan's enterprise in Ireland

I get what you mean but that's a bit of an exaggeration. With that said, I know people who would like to celebrate St George's day as a bit of fun and a day off, but said they're afraid of others making the association you just made. So it's self perpetuating.

There's a similar association with football. I have mates who support lower league teams where they come from. Travel home for most games in the conference and national leagues, but wouldn't be bothered with England games. They only got together to watch the Euros a few years ago when England got to the semi final. Lower league football is seen as a passionate fan's game but England is associated with nationalism and day trippers rather than real fans.