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Ire v Samoa 19:45pm - On RTÉ Two

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  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭ljsulster


    Stockdale is many things but poor under a high ball he is not- misjudged one but good apart from that



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    simpleton fan boys

    Mod: cut out the personal abuse.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    That's a very fair point.


    Presumably irfu asked Farrell what he wanted for the warmup and they did it.


    They could have gotten more money to play another home game or pay a match fee to play away against a major nation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,571 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    The aviva is booked up by a big brass band and load of cheerleaders with dubious connections to the emerald isle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Awful game in horrendous conditions. But we had a very mixed side out there. Good few 3rd and 4th choice players playing large parts of the game. And Samoa are not a bad side. They comfortably beat both Tonga and Romania in recent months by 20 odd points each. And the only try they scored was a pretty jammy intercept. So basically what we’ve seen is that even in terrible conditions a scratch side that hasn’t really played together much is enough to get us through those first 2 games. That’ll do.

    What we need to worry about is whether our first string team will get through the other games. And I think there was plenty of evidence that we can in that England game. When we clicked in that one we looked very good and some of our variations off the our pods was encouraging. A functioning line out and we’d have put 40+ on them and I’m not sure we’d see quite the same level of hysteria on here then.

    However the line out is a worry. And having 2 injured hookers is going to make that hard to fix. It’s one of the only areas I’d be genuinely concerned about at this stage. Things settled down when Herring came on yesterday which eases that concern somewhat but SA will be licking their lips at those issues.

    Another concern is the form of a few senior players. Hendo and Henshaw yesterday for me were very poor. Two senior and experienced guys who needed to step up and who I don’t think did. Beirne too has been very quiet in his performances. Add to that the injury to Healy, an area where we simply don’t have too much depth at all, and there is cause for some concern.

    I wouldn’t worry about our form in general. Our first string team have played 1 game together now in 5 months. And they were close to putting a big score up on an admittedly very poor England. They showed some real class at times in that game and have a few weeks to iron out any additional issues. Plus that side will almost certainly include both VDF and Sexton in the starting line up (with Doris in his best position at 8) which will improve us again.

    Its a real shame seeing so many Irish people looking to run this team down before the tournament even gets going. It’s okay to have criticisms, but try and contextualise those and recognise that it isn’t all bad. And if you’re a rugby fan who can’t see anything but negatives (and not just in this series of games), I do wonder what the point is. Why follow something that makes you miserable? It’s just weird.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭joedamuss


    Exactly, we have to get behind our team, if we get a bit of luck with no more injuries or red cards we can definitely get to a semi final, our first choice team with Sexton pulling the strings can and will beat anyone

    Erin Abú ☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️



  • Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭ShineyShiney


    Glad the warmups are over. Always a challenge.

    12 of our 1st choice didn't start last night for context. My concerns for the wider squad would be the obvious ones, injury at hooker, loosehead and jack conan and a lack of form from Henderson, Henshaw, Beirne and to a lesser extent Furlong.

    I think we have selected well and despite lacking a decent 1, 7 and back 3 player to push for squad inclusion ( we don't have these guys) we will be in a great place at the beginning of the competition.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,519 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Watched the game again this morning with a cold eye.

    I'm not sure why there was so much raised eye brows about Murray's MOTM. From an Ireland point of view, he was one of the better players on the pitch, if the measure was "who made the least amount of errors". The best player on the pitch was the Samoan 9, taumateine, and I think the reaction from the crowd on the announcement was a reflection of this. Murray was responsible for the most impactful moment of the game as well. He was Steady Eddie while a lot of his team mates were a bit clueless.

    Wayne Barnes was poor. He definitely whistled Ireland a lot more than Samoa, and again allowed chaos at the breakdown which other refs don't. The gate must have been banana shaped in his mind with the amount of side entries he allowed. In the first half he twice allowed the Samoans to drag Irish players over the side line while their knees were on their ground. That has been whistled pretty harshly over the last couple of seasons, but Barnes seems to have gone on a solo run allowing it. Also, in the lead up to the Samoan pen that put them ahead at half time, there were two incidents where Ireland had held up the ball carrier and formed the maul, but Barnes turned them into tackles.

    Tom steward is under powered for this level currently. In open play as a hooker he was knocked back too many times. It will be interesting to see if we bring two hooker's who aren't fit for the first could of games.

    McCloskey and henshaw were poor. In a game in those conditions you expect some hard gain line carries on midfield but we didn't get enough from them. Our control and management in the first half was not to the level it should have been. Crowley is still young and he'll learn to play those conditions better in the future, but for me he was too quite, literally, in managing the plays and structure.

    We were better in the second half and we were practically camped in their half from minute 55 to 75. The 58% territory stat was testimony to that. Not getting a score from it was an issue though. We were too "one out" in those situations and have it ready to defend.

    The weather was, obviously, the biggest single factor which influenced the game. We had line out issues in the first half but it was heartening to see it resolved in game.

    All in all, another win, good test of playing a very physical team. Terrible injury for Healy but let's hope it's not too serious.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,571 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Barnes got pissed off early with the shouting that was being directed at him.

    Ultimately he is a posh brit so doesn't take that kind of behavior. I think it was steward he penalized for it, and hansen later in the game gave away ten yards for objecting to a penalty call.

    The players should know barnes well enough now to keep your mouth shut and have the captain approach him when needs be



  • Registered Users Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Mr Disco


    incorrect with that statement re 12 of first XV not starting.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    I think the most worrying aspect of last nights performance, was the lack of leadership. There was a massive change when Ryan and POM came on. A lot of the senior players were coasting, when we needed them to step up. Yes it’s a warm up and no one wants to get injured. Though you want to know that certain players can step up, when Sexton, Ryan and POM aren’t there.

    The weather was atrocious and I’m sure that had a major influence on the performance too. I’m the end, we stuck to it and dug out the win. That’s important in itself.

    I’m not sure if I want us to win more because I’m a rugby fan and Ireland fan. Or to shut up the misery merchants and seagulls on here, who are baying for Ireland to lose. I think the former but the latter would be sweet to.

    At least the warmups proper are over now and we can look forward to the tournament. Perhaps I’m too Irish to be confident but I’m certainly optimistic about our chances.



  • Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭ShineyShiney


    Depends on who each of us think is the starting 15.

    Mine is Porter, Sheehan, Furlong, Ryan, McCarthy ( my pick), pom, VDF, Doris, jgp, Sexton, aki, Ringrose, Hansen, Lowe, Keenan.

    Even if you put Beirne in place of McCarthy it's 11 of the first choice selection didn't start.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I think you’re right to point out we were missing a load of starters.

    But on the above, what you mean is 12 of your 1st choice 15 didn’t start.

    I don’t think McCarthy will make the 23. And Henshaw could easily be ahead of Aki (which I think is what Farrell will go with, with Aki on the bench).

    So I make it 10 of our starters. Just for the sake of accuracy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭Hippo


    Herring was my POTM, transformed things when he came on. Murray had his try but Stockdale must take most of the praise for it with that lovely chip ahead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Mr Disco


    You think McCarthy is first XV over Beirne? Uninstall internet please…



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,081 ✭✭✭fitz


    Agree with pretty much all of this, aside from Murray. He may have been steady, but he was too slow to rucks...the Samoan defense had plenty of time to set and rush our receivers. He's still a great player, but it feels like he forgets the level of urgency required at times.

    I think Barnes got pissed off with being screamed at early in the game, especially after it continued despite him calling it out, and he was just super harsh on us for the rest of the game. Totally right on the side entries and the off-feet nonsense. I generally think Barnes is one of the top refs overall, but he wasn't good last night.

    Glad the warm ups are done and we haven't seen too many injuries, though I'm gutted for Healy. Hopefully it's not enough to rule him out fully, but it didn't look good.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    If a Leinster player was as anonymous in the last 2 games as Beirne has been, there would be an army on here calling for his head on a spike.

    McCarthy should be ahead on form



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,081 ✭✭✭fitz


    Our most prolific jackalers, Beirne and VDF, have both been quiet in that regard. I think part of that is not risking taking an injury being blown off a ball they've tried to steal. Beirne wasn't great last night, but he's got credit in the bank. I expect he'll up his game though.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    And yet Henshaw was in his last 2 games and this army you’re speaking of didn’t materialise…



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,571 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers




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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I wouldn’t rate VdF as “prolific” tbh, and certainly nowhere near Beirne’s level.

    It’s an area of the game VdF has improved in the last 2 seasons, but I’d be surprised if, say, Doris doesn’t turn over more ball then him. Maybe even Porter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,986 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Murray will never be fast enough for some on here. No matter the game, you'll always have some saying he's slow.

    While we're talking turnovers, he had two turnovers yesterday too, something that has gone beneath the radar a bit, in a game we were under the cosh a lot.



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,081 ✭✭✭fitz


    Fair. But point kinda applies across the board...we didn't see as much jackalling in the warm ups as we usually would, and I think that was possibly deliberate.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,423 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Some tweaks to the laws earlier in the year have brought down the number of pilfers across the board.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,350 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    POM was quietly excellent, some of his best carrying I've seen in a long time. Not often you see him running over someone, especially an Islander.

    With concerns over our accuracy in the lineout, it was great to see us do well defensively. I hope it's something we keep up. Ryan and POM are 2 of the best in the business for disrupting opponent's throws.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Exactly this, VDF is many things but a turnover threat is not one. He has never been a fetcher type 7. Porter, Doris and Conan are far more prolific there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭ShineyShiney


    Yeah on his warm up performances I'd leave him out for McCarthy. I'm not anti Beirne I think he was phenomenal last year and he may be keeping his best for when it's needed but from the outside I don't think he's on the money at the moment and I don't really rate Henderson.

    Why do you find it so challenging that someone holds a different opinion?

    Aloof puts Henshaw ahead of Aki, I wouldn't agree right now but I'm not upset by him having a different opinion. I won't be turning off the internet anyway 😂



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,758 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Aloof puts Henshaw ahead of Aki, I wouldn't agree right now but I'm not upset by him having a different opinion

    Sure, but Aki and Henshaw have 47 and 65 caps respectively and have frequently interchanged the 12 position. McCarthy has 130 mins of international rugby and is behind two other players to get to a starting role. Nevertheless, it's a bit absurd to talk about the performance being disjointed because the 47 cap second row is in there instead of the 3 cap one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Mr Disco


    Just block the unknowledgeable troll. It’s easier



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