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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Yeah it was awful seeing Ireland winning a Grand Slam having scored more tries than any other team in the competition by a distance (we scored 20, England came 5th and were next best on 14). It was awful winning a series in Australia for the first time in my lifetime and then backing that up with an unbeaten November where we out scored our opponents on tries in every game by a total of 12 to 3. Terrible it was. Terrible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭Iamabeliever


    What do you mean observable evidence. I watch FR and I rate him highly. Many do. I think the majority of Irish base pundits are the only ones who speak in negative terms. If your talking about sheep... Maybe turn off the RTE channel



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Don't think it's complicated. Some people are positioning themselves so that if they don't have the joy of watching their team excel, they at least have the pleasure of saying "I told you so".



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Another forward is the obvious answer.

    I know we are big fans Earls and he's a ligind etc etc but he wasn't even making the Munster 23 at the business end of the season. Leaving the emotion out of it I tend to agree, I really don't think he's up to playing against Scotland, SA or beyond.

    Though counter to that and as I've said in other cases, Farrell knows what he's doing and obviously has the benefit of the doubt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Finn Russell is flaky. The best example was actually for Racing against Leinster back in December. He created a lovely try for Racing and commentators were waxing lyrical about him and his ability. The problem was that he was nowhere to be seen for the vast majority of that game. At one point they got Leinster on the back foot and were deep inside our 22. Cue the Racing 10 taking the bull by the horns and picking out options that put Leinster under more pressure to eventually put Racing in a scoring position. Finn? Finn? Where are you Finn? A couple of phases later Leinster have regained their shape and pushed Racing back beyond the 10m line. Finn did the sum total of nothing with that promising passage.

    The Scotland game in the 6Ns was the same. Ireland in a bad way and the line out a real area to be targeted. Did Russell start putting balls in behind to try and do that? Nope. What did he do in that second half? Again, very little really.

    Its all well and good being able to do the sexy stuff. But it’s a professional sport. His job is to play his role in getting his team victories. And when the going is good he can look great at that. When the going isn’t so good he can all but vanish. Or worse, start throwing Hail Mary balls and making mistakes left and right. Again, the French game in the 6Ns epitomised that. Great one moment, awful the next.

    I wouldn’t have Russell within an arsed roar of any team I supported. If he can get his head right and apply himself better he could be a generational talent. But right now he’s a guy who can look wonderful but ultimately fall short when it matters. A bit like Scotland themselves.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭Iamabeliever


    Donegal won there first all Ireland playing in 2012 too. Can't say I enjoyed how they played



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,102 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    From Murray Kinsella, The42: 'I had a conversation 18 months ago to try to stop him from retiring' (the42.ie)

    'I had a conversation 18 months ago to try to stop him from retiring'

    ​IRELAND BOSS ANDY Farrell has revealed that he had to dissuade Keith Earls from retiring 18 months ago.

    35-year-old Earls was yesterday named in Ireland’s final 33-man World Cup squad, having been convinced not to hang up his boots at the end of the 2021/22 season.

    Rather than calling it a day at that stage, Earls signed an extension to his IRFU contract until the end of the upcoming World Cup.

    And while he had an injury-hit 2022/23 season, Earls returned for Munster towards the end of their URC-winning campaign and has now secured his place in Farrell’s squad for the World Cup in France.

    Yesterday, after Farrell discussed some of the younger players who made his squad or pushed hard for places, the Ireland coach hailed Earls’ remarkable journey.

    “You go to the other end of the scale and Keith Earls… I had a conversation 18 months ago to try to stop him from retiring,” said Farrell.

    “He’s certainly come through the other side. He’s been outstanding over the last nine weeks as regards giving to the squad his whole self, his experience, etc., but at the same time being as fit and excited as I’ve ever seen him. You go from one extreme to the other.”

    Earls will play in his fourth World Cup having recently become a centurion for Ireland, marking his 100th cap with his 36th Test try against England two weekends ago.

    The Limerick man pulled out of Saturday’s win over Samoa due to a “minor niggle” but Farrell said Earls would have played if it was a bigger game at the World Cup. He can look forward to a few of those now.

    On the other end of the scale, Farrell has been pleased to see 22-year-old lock Joe McCarthy and 23-year-old out-half Jack Crowley, the two youngest members of the squad, taking their chances to earn World Cup places.

    “Go back to the Emerging Ireland tour, the South African tour [last year], and you know everyone knew how hard that was, how hard a time it was for Irish rugby because there was a little bit of fallout,” said Farrell.

    “Have a look at what’s come from that, the experience of sending a kid over to grasp what it takes to be an international player and seeing how they run with that experience for the rest of the season – can they make it into the first team in their province, and not just start but thrive in that type of pressure?

    “I think that’s been an extraordinary story if you ask me in regards to Jack Crowley and Joe McCarthy and Nashy [Calvin Nash] who has obviously been in with us in camp, and Tom Stewart and more players as well who are going to benefit.”



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Could it be that you’re possibly expecting too much? Rugby, as I said above, is a professional sport. Players, coaches and teams are there to win. They are not there to play the most amazing brand of rugby for your benefit. And the problem is that if they were playing sexy rugby all the time but never winning anything they’d be getting it in the neck for that too. What you seem to want is perfection. The perfect style of rugby married to the perfect results. How often does that happen in any sport?

    People give out about Ireland kicking loads under Schmidt. But even then, they weren’t the team who kicked the most. IIRC that honour went to NZ.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭TheAnalyst_


    Someone with pace or size. You know, a winger.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,235 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Ah, that's silly. It was great to win those games and series. It's true to say it was great to win and not as entertaining to watch as more expansive rugby.

    Another way to put it would be would you prefer to win those games with the pragmatic approach Ireland took, or with a more expansive style?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,053 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    So no suggestions then. Earls is perfect squad player for the world cup. He has more than enough pace and his experience is huge for the squad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    This post reminds me of the teams you'd sometimes see announced with AN Other on the team sheet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    The more pragmatic approach is what gets the wins generally. You can’t always have both. Which is my point. Coaches and teams don’t play pragmatic rugby for the craic. They do it because it’s the best approach to getting results. How many other successful teams have people complained about in that regard? Saracens, Wales under Gatland, the Lions under Gatland, South Africa, Ireland, England a number of times over the years. It’s incredibly normal that success and pragmatism go hand in hand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    Prendergast covers 6/7/8 now for Ireland, even if a lock gets injured Baid will cover 5 and he could be called for 6.

    He's IMO for 1st next on the line, important likelihood he's back in France at one point...



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    Healy back before 10 w means Farrell opened up a door for a QF re-call

    Thought?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Would that be Earls who missed the 6N and quite a bit of the back end of the season injured, but started the URC semi final and came off the bench in the final?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,004 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Not surprised by that. I enjoy watching Finn Russell play because its entertaining. But I wouldn't want him on a team I actually support because I want that team to win trophies.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I care predominantly about the win. My next care would be whether the style is sustainable to achieve more wins. About 7 levels below that would be caring about the actual aesthetic style of the win.

    It's sport, I will take pragmatic wins over flair and despair every single day of the week. Nothing will convince me that Scottish fans are a happier lot than Irish fans over the last 5 years.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    The 2015 NZ team will forever be seen as a better and more attractive side than the 2019 SA team despite them both being world champions, in my view.

    The French U20s gave us something approaching peak rugby this year. We'll see if it keeps feeding into a winning senior side.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,004 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    I was thinking about that. I'd say Porter, Sheehan and Doris would make the 23 for the late McCaw era ABs. Furlong and possibly Healy at their peak as well but not on current form. No one from the backs would get in. That side from 2011 to 2015 was just ridiculously good. I miss those days 😭



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Doris on the bench maybe, no chance of him displacing Read or Kaino.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I doubt SA fans care though. I wouldn't.

    It would be nice for sure. But we are talking about a cherry on top, its not remotely important.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Observable reality would be the 6N game when Ireland lost both hookers within 30 minutes. FR utterly failed to exploit this and instead played to Irelands strengths. Playing between the 22’s, trying to breakdown a structured defence and getting nowhere. When the intelligent play would have been to kick to touch deep in Irish territory and force lineouts. That was possibly the worst performance by a 10 all season but definitely the worst of the 6N.

    Or we could take the Racing V Leinster game in Le Harvre. Where FR was an empty jersey for 70 minutes. He did nothing of note at all. Then he made a half break and threw a lovely pass for them to score. The pundits reaction after the game. Oh isn’t FR so skillful, not many 10’s could have created that score. Let’s just ignore the fact he was a waste of space for the rest of the game. That’s the difference between observable reality and pundit soundbites.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,004 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    No I'd go Barrett. More of a game changer and covers FB.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Well I suppose you have to be catastrophically wrong about something every now and again.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    cant be recalled unless as an injury replacement.

    even at that he will be 10 weeks without any real fitness stress. i cant see it happening.

    If Loughman / killer or (god forbid) Porter goes down, id imagine Michael Milne will be next off the rank.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Yeah, against teams in decline for the most part, being a Munster fan I’ve also watched Munster employ the same tactic over many years and get beaten and stick at it even though it doesn’t work against better teams in my opinion.

    When it works it works, when it doesn’t realizing it and a plan B is needed - adapting to what’s in front of you is also key - aka Argentina and Japan. Sometimes teams don’t play the way you expect.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    It doesn't need to be as black-and-white as you're painting tho. Case in point, Munster themselves. Murray kicked a tonne (and excellently) in the URC final, for example.

    It obviously wasn't the be-all-and-end-all of our strategy. But it absolutely was a core feature, with Nash and Daly doing a brilliant job competing. That, married with our higher posessions, passing per phase and offloading game, worked brilliantly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    So every major rugby nation in the world are currently in decline?



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