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Nurse Lucy Letby found guilty of murdering seven babies

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    #872
    goodlad_ourvlad
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭goodlad_ourvlad


    I think I'm in the mid 30's episodes of the Mail's podcast on this, the amount of information to absorb is staggering.

    I was wondering though, why do they name pretty much everyone on the shifts she worked on, except a select few who applied for anonymity (this is excluding the children of course) ...

    Doctor A etc... I'm assuming he is probably trying to salvage a marriage at this point, and agreed to give evidence on the basis of anonymity so his career isn't dragged through the mud either, after saying he'd trust Lethby with his kids etc... ?



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    #873
    dbas
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭dbas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121039845#Comment_121039845

    You've obviously parented a toddler then lol



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    #874
    dbas
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭dbas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121039835#Comment_121039835

    Intergenerational abuse. The abused child becomes the abusing parent. Thankfully not always.



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    #875
    dbas
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭dbas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121039943#Comment_121039943

    Maybe you can request anonymity?

    That doctor A testifying rattled her good and proper. Bet she thought she had him wrapped.

    There's a lot to take in in that podcast.



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    #876
    bejeezus
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭bejeezus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040520#Comment_121040520

    You seem as interested in her psychology as I am! Just an observation.



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    #877
    goodlad_ourvlad
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭goodlad_ourvlad


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040558#Comment_121040558

    yes, you can, because they did... but, it's at the judges discretion.

    I'm trying to understand the rationale as to what would allow for this and what circumstances do, in what should be a public case, where strangely about 90% of everyone else involved is named.

    I have to take a break from it for a few days, I've shot through nearly 40 episodes, very well put together, except the piano theme tune in the first 30 or so episodes, I'm sick of it :-D



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    #878
    goodlad_ourvlad
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭goodlad_ourvlad


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040520#Comment_121040520

    Her Dad has an element to him that I just didn't like, and the fact he got involved with her disciplinary etc... house bought for her, she didn't seem to have any male companionship and if allegations are true, she did terrible things to gain attention from another male.... there is definitely a father issue somewhere along the line.



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    #879
    Jequ0n
    Registered Users Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040505#Comment_121040505

    Whatever that has to do with this discussion



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    #880
    dbas
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭dbas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040948#Comment_121040948

    He stayed over with her sometimes too. He stayed over the night she was raided by cops. No mention of the wife staying over either. That struck me as a bit odd



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    #881
    dbas
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭dbas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040950#Comment_121040950

    They are animalistic by nature, until they are taught not to be



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    #882
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,161 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121039002#Comment_121039002

    Well one of us was actually there and one of us is speculating so...

    Maybe its possible that everyone is different and that your jury was different than mine?



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    #883
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,161 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121039331#Comment_121039331

    Definitely someone is confused!


    I don't know how I can make it any clearer for you.

    The jury are in a room on their own. They are free to interpret the evidence how they so wish and come to a conclusion and as such arrive at a verdict.

    One of my major failings is that I can't read others minds, so I dont know exactly what their reasoning was to come to their individual verdicts, but I know what they discussed during deliberations and I know what the presented evidence was and I know what the final verdict was.



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    #884
    dbas
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭dbas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040948#Comment_121040948

    The ma is a bit odd too. Weird outburst in court upon conviction. Was there some trauma around Letbys birth? I've heard That can have lasting effects in certain cases



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    #885
    dbas
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭dbas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040717#Comment_121040717

    I'd like to understand why.

    I'm the kind of person who's watched mindhunter a few times now. Fascinating to think that by observing and understanding the worst of criminals, we can learn and apply that learning to make the world safer.



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    #886
    Oscar_Madison
    Registered Users Posts: 5,693 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041058#Comment_121041058

    It’s more I find it hard to believe rather than I don’t believe you. Did people give their reasons for choosing guilty?

    If you all gave the decision a good discussion and consideration then the verdict is what it is- nearly a dozen people were happy with the testimony of the witnesses and the evidence presented - it’s not just the cctv I’d imagine that was the evidence but what was also said in testimony under oath in court - how long was the trial?



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    #887
    goodlad_ourvlad
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭goodlad_ourvlad


    a lot of what made me think she was guilty, was her cross examination during her defence.

    a lot of the information presented by the prosecution during their time started to make sense in the direction of what they accused.

    she tripped herself up numerous times and lied about substantial timelines etc... IMO.

    I really feel she is a disturbed person who doesn't want to believe what she did (or just acknowledge it out loud).

    The handover sheets from over 100 other babies during her time as a student elsewhere being kept as mementos was a bit odd.



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    #888
    dbas
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭dbas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041141#Comment_121041141

    I bet they are thoroughly investigating any patients who's paperwork they found in her house



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    #889
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041075#Comment_121041075

    It would have to have been a considerable trauma with no repair and ongoing environmental challenges. In saying that maybe not. All we can do is speculate as to what motivated Letby and what type of person she is. It's not so strange that outwardly to others she appeared bland and kind even. I imagine she has the capacity for kindness and consideration. I don't feel the self others saw was a deliberately act on her part.

    If you imagine yourself to be a circle and within are all your bits and pieces. Feelings thoughts etc. You have doors as well which difficult experiences will lie behind and maybe for compartmentalising.

    Lucy is a similar circle filled with feelings and thoughts, but also darkness and rage and hurt of such levels that it's destructive. She destroyed lives and she destroyed herself. More complexities as well of course given what we now know.

    Nowhere in your circle (assuming) or Lucy's is a space for deliberately pretending to be nice all the while having a laugh at those who you have "taken in".

    That's just one way I've thought about Lucy Letby and I'm probably wrong.



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    #890
    gameoverdude
    Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042187#Comment_121042187

    I'm feeling stoned after reading that.



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    #891
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,577 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041061#Comment_121041061

    I understand how juries work.

    And I know they have to be persuaded by the evidence presented at trial. You said they just found the person guilty because they believed the gardai wouldnt arrest him, if it wasn't him.

    Then you said they were happy with the CCTV footage.

    Now, you don't know what they thought at all!

    Not surprised you didn't bring it to the attention of the judge 🙄



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    #892
    cap.in.hand.
    Registered Users Posts: 718 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    A podcast 'british nurse to worst child serial killer ever-the full story of Lucy letby' just a day old and 1 HR 47min is very good apart from female presenter putting on her makeup during it...it seems letby was part of staff that were sent on a safety course that included the dangers of babies or anyone having a air embolism in their blood stream and other dangers I presume that would be detrimental to health of babies....this course was 2 weeks before the first baby "baby A died under her care... that's amazing information.



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    #893
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042326#Comment_121042326

    Be thankful I used circles and not dodecahedrons 😁😁



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    #894
    gameoverdude
    Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042688#Comment_121042688

    That would actually be my thing!



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    #895
    dbas
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭dbas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042187#Comment_121042187

    She's also a capable adult, responsible for her own choices in life.

    Not only did she choose to kill kids but she chose to do so in a very cunning manner, where it is almost impossible to be caught.

    I mean, if she killed these kids in a quantity that aligned with the expected annual deaths, then she would never have been caught (probably)

    It got good to her and she thought she was invincible, until the other staff began to think the unthinkable.

    Did you ever watch the series called Dexter?

    Letby would have been a prime target to be strapped to his chair



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    #896
    dbas
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭dbas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042389#Comment_121042389

    There's so much of that type of evidence in this case. Prosecution lawyer KC took apart her story completely, and her defence had literally nothing left to counter with



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    #897
    dbas
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭dbas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041141#Comment_121041141

    I'd say she thought she was gonna get away with it. Her defence was- I didn't do it.

    It seems like she underestimated the prosecution lawyer completely. I'm not even sure she had to take the stand and testify herself.

    I wonder did her lawyer advise against testifying, as the other side would get their chance to cross examine her also. He picked her apart by all accounts



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    #898
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,102 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018161#Comment_121018161

    If she owns a house/car she won’t be needing either again



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    #899
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,161 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041095#Comment_121041095

    It was 3 days. The testimony was from the arresting guards, there was no other evidence other than the CCTV.


    Again, the argument put forward for the guilty verdict was that, despite the CCTV being next to useless, "the guards know what they are doing" oh and another statement was "they have special tools to clean up the video, so they know it was him".

    I would also say that 11 of the jurors were what I would call peers. I was the outlier in my opinion.

    I really wish I was making this up. It scared the bejesus out of me.



    /edit

    trial was 3 days, I was on duty for a few days before being picked.



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    #900
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,161 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042351#Comment_121042351

    They dont "have to be persuaded by the evidence"

    They should be, but if you can tell me how that is enforced I'm all ears.

    I honestly dont understand how you cant follow this, its pretty simple.

    I cannot tell you what each person actually thought of the CC tv evidence. What I can tell you is that they convicted a man where the only evidence presented by the prosecution was the CC tv footage. When I brought up to them that the footage was next to useless their argument was as I described multiple times. "the police know what they are doing and wouldnt have arrested the wrong person"


    There was zero point to the trial as 11 of the jury used the fact that the police arrested a man as evidence of his guilt.



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    #901
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121049254#Comment_121049254

    Frankly these so-called jurors belong in gaol for that.



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