Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Cork Area Commuter Rail (CACR)

Options
11012141516

Comments

  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Signalling contract awarded to Alston. €78.5m

    https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2023/0818/1400463-irish-rail-cork/



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I thoroughly dislike Mr Ryan but this seems to be a project that he has kicked over the finishing line.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Only because it's being funded by the EU COVID Recovery and Resilience Facility which has a deadline on it. If this was a normal government funded project it would still be stuck at the drawing board. Even at that the bureaucracy in Ireland is doing its best to slow this down. The railway order for the dual tracking from Glounthaune to Midleton element is stuck in ABP since last November. It's such a relatively quick win but the red tape is extensive in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    ABP is the problem in all infrastructure projects here. They already had nothing like the resources they needed, and then they got landed with large housing developments too, which get far more objections than any road or rail project.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,346 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    At least there are signs.

    Most bus stops in Limerick City have no markings to indicate their existence.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Economics101


    ABP are not just innocent under-resourced victims; they have had their own governance and legal problems.

    Also they seem to have quite a number of cases whare the ABP Board over-rules their own inspectors. I'm not saying that this should never happen, but it should be rare. Are the inspectors not up to the job, of is the Board being irresponsible (or worse)?

    And of course resort to judicial review has also clogged things. There seems to be quite a success rate for judicial reviews of ABP. If ABP were doing a thorough professional job, then successful judicial reviews should be cpmparatively rare.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Can you elaborate on "governance and legal problems"? I'm not absolving them of all blame, but the fact is that various governments have loaded more and more work onto ABP without funding it to hire enough staff to deal with that extra workload.

    Going against the inspector's report is a normal part of how ABP works - it should not be universal but it should not be rare either. The inspector gathers evidence about a particular application, listens to submissions and makes a recommendation, but it is the Board that ultimately decides whether to approve an application. The inspector confines themself to one project, but the board considers that project in the context of other projects.

    Judicial reviews are a direct consequence of under-resourcing. JRs are objections based on process, not findings - you can only win on the basis of "ABP did not follow this legally-required process", and when you haven't got enough staff on hand to deal with the workload, there will be oversights and omissions, and that leaves the door open for JRs - JRs are usually pretty quick in terms of court time, but they get dragged out by an under-resourced Courts system. The length of time that it takes APB to handle a planning application also allows the legal framework to change during the evaluation process. Again, with adequate resourcing, the jobs would get done quick enough that this would hardly ever happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    The Cork line level crossing project to close/automate 7 level crossings and increase line speed between Buttevant and Limerick Junction, is sitting with ABP for over 2 years now. A quick win going nowhere. If we can't get low hanging fruit projects like that progressed, there's little chance any of the bigger stuff gets done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Yes, it's maddening, and a big part of it is that "Minister approves funding for 100 more public servants" is seen as a negative, while "Minister approves funding for new rail project" is positive. Thing is, without the first, we can't get the second. Planning for big schemes should take 6-9 months - you won't get quicker given that people have a right to know what's being planned and to make observations - but there just aren't enough inspectors and general staff to deal with the number of schemes, so everything gets backlogged.

    There are changes to the planning process coming with new legislation that will cut down on the number of spurious objections and make it harder to bring JRs, but the planning system still needs to be properly resourced or the delays will continue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭cantalach


    So the signalling contract is independent of the dual-tracking contract and, in theory at least, could proceed without it. To a layperson like me, that seems very strange. I’d have thought that the new track and structural work would have to be done before signalling work. Does this suggest that awarding of the dual-tracking contract is imminent?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    It's sort-of independent. The signalling work will be for a dual-track railway, but in theory they could just tell it it to "close" the sections of track that don't actually exist yet, and route trains over the existing single-track way. However, the dual-tracking work is also out for tender as I understand it.

    Interestingly, the Strategic Rail Review document listed the Cork suburban network as a railway with "electrification already planned". The news report linked on previous page said that services would treble from the current one train per 15 minutes level, and I don't see how they're going to get to twelve trains per hour reliably without electrification... does anyone have any details?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Could it be nothing more than they plan to use battery rolling stock ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,914 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The new signalling will be digital, they can add more physical signals later and program in the new double-tracked section fairly easily.

    The plan is 10 minute frequency on each line which would be a train every 5 minutes west of Glountaune.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,176 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    From the RTE report, I have some questions.

    "New stations at Ballynoe and Water-Rock are planned between Carrigtwohill and Midleton, while Carrigtwohill West, Dunkettle, Tivoli, Monard, and Blarney/Stoneview stations are also expected to be delivered in 2026"

    Where is Ballynoe station? Is this Ballyrichard maybe?

    Where is Carrigtwohill West? Is this at the West of the IDA park? And how far West? Because works are underway in the area right now for a greenway and this would be a 5th or 6th standalone plan for transport infrastructure in the area with no masterplan: it's getting messy. Would be nice to see an overall plan.

    Also, no mention of Blackpool/Kilbarry seems incorrect?

    Also, Tivoli station being mentioned now is interesting: will this come before a published plan of the area I wonder?

    Blarney/Stoneview is hopefully a P&R with a link to the business park.

    And should they consider a station near North Link business park?



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Ballynoe is between Carrigaloe and Rushbrooke on the Cobh branch

    Carrigtwohill is planned to be in and around the IDA park

    Blackpool omission is surely an error

    Tivoli is in the to be redeveloped port area

    The big issue is that to my knowledge firm plans for these stations haven’t made and we’re working off indicative locations from the CMATS plan



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Under the plans for the dual tracking to Midleton this was the site potentially earmarked for the Carrigtwohill West station.

    To be honest I wouldn't be holding my breath that any of these stations will materialise anytime soon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,607 ✭✭✭snotboogie



    So they plan to build a station in the middle of an empty field in Monard?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,176 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Yep I really don't see these being done by 2026 (as reported by RTE). Some of them I don't foresee at all. For instance the Tivoli one can't be delivered by 2026 surely, because nobody knows what the overall development masterplan is yet. It's an inaccurate report by RTE I think.

    Thanks Marno: I forgot about Ballynoe Cobh. That station makes very little sense to me if I'm honest, it looks like it would facilitate a single housing development. I wonder if this is some kind of Carrigaloe station relocation to the Ferry point or something? Or is it maybe a move of Rushbrooke? I don't understand it, as it stands. One of the biggest things needed on the Cobh section of the network is simple footpaths. The footpath from Cobh train to Cobh town is tiny. They need to make Westbourne Place outside the hotel one way Westbound and give space back to pedestrians. There's no footpath to/from Carrigaloe etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,176 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    This one is for a new town planned by the County Council. It will have no cars, just like Ballinglanna and Waterrock (I hope you can feel the sarcasm in my post!)


    Here's a nice post about Monard. Conceptually it's not terrible, but realistically each and every one of these people will be a commuter. There's almost nowhere local for them to work. It's Carrigaline or Ballincollig with a train station basically.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Ballynoe is probably a precursor to new housing development along the northern edge of ballynoe road, but even now there would be about 150 houses within a 10 minute walk of a station where the rail line crosses Ballynoe road. Footpaths/cycleways would still be a problem, though: Ballynoe road is really tight here.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭Ireland trains


    Blackpool and Blarney are to go to planning within 12 months



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,176 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Yep it looks like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut: "we need a new station" but hardly a care in the world about using the two stations on either side properly!



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Blackpool had planning years ago and nothing happened. Hope it happens but as I said, I wouldn't be holding my breath.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Rushbrooke Station is really not suitable for anything inland - there’s a steep ridge, some scrubland and then a row of people’s back-gardens before you get to a public right of way. It was built there for the access to the dockyard, not for any future local residents, and because nobody at the council had foresight to reserve a way inland of it, it's no longer accessible at that side.

    Actually, looking at the map, this could be dealt with by moving the station about 100 metres along, and then connecting to the residential area as shown in green below:




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,176 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    That's literally what I had in mind. A footpath would do a lot at each of Carrigaloe or Rushbrooke. You wouldn't even need to move the stations! I'm not at all against a new station, but there's very little needed to make the existing ones work a lot better.

    With more investment at Rushbrooke you could allow one of the usual passenger bridges (with lifts) to connect across the ravine you drew in your picture, making the climb/descent even more comfortable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,491 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    International transport company Alstom is set to conduct works on signalling upgrades in a contract that is worth €78.5m, according to Iarnród Éireann.


    What sort of work is this? Is there much civils work?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,491 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Thanks.

    78.5m seems a lot?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭cantalach


    According the Bord Pleanála website, the Railway Order Application for the dual tracking project hasn't been approved yet. The decision is apparently "Requires Further Consideration" which, to me any, sounds a bit oxymoronic. Surely a decision of "we haven't decided yet" isn't actually a decision.

    https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/315087



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




Advertisement