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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    "Definitely" should have been ahead of Frawley? Get out of it. Flannery, fine.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    the only "prep" game right now that we need to be showing we are playing well in, is the Tonga game.

    all other teams that we playing well right now (scotland, france, south africa) all have incredibly difficult first games in the RWC in 2 weeks time, so they NEED to be humming right now.

    its absolutely mental that people are pointing to a very convincing win over england with our first team, and two wins over italy and samoa with scratch teams, as being somehow bad preparation. There are issues that we need fixing of course ie the lineout, but apart from that, we look solid and organised in defense, we are obviously holding back power plays in attack yet scored 13 tries in those 3 games, and we've shipped one singular RWC ending injury.

    Doom sells, as misery loves company.....



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Frawley is not a 10, yet was picked on that tour as a 10 ahead of a player who actually is a 10 and had started HC games there.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    personal opinions can be wrong, and quite often are.......



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    There are other ways of exposing their defence too. Our wide game combined with some of our delayed passing close to the line can both do damage to the line speed and narrowness of the SA defence. Obviously kicking can too. Hopefully we look to mix it up a bit.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    If France don't beat N-Z (surprisingly) we have to lose to S-Af. Not exposing them.

    Be smart. French team is a tank. U20 scenario + home ref would happen. All strategy is good to avoid them in QF. My opinion.

    In the final I don't care as reaching this point would already be some result and France would feel extra-pressure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭rodge123


    Yeah I’d prefer avoid France in quarter also for those reasons BUT we can’t throw the SA game, I reckon it’s unlikely we lose to Scotland but it’s not impossible. Don’t even make quarters then.

    They won’t roll the dice like Leinster did against Munster this year in URC…they will put out our best team available for the two big games against SA and Scotland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭Iamabeliever


    Against SA, I think we revert to type 'joe Schmitt's' and ensure kick chasers are on the money early in the game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭CMcsporty


    fair play for sticking your neck out!

    What most people probably can’t get over is the amount of risk Russell takes.

    Its highly entertaining but an unnecessary penchant.

    There is a the one or two on here who will try and close down any conversation that differs from “Everything is Awesome”. And what they know is right! It is entertaining the lengths at which they will go to, albeit distasteful in the way they go about it, and also unnecessary.

    What I find most frustrating about Sexton is that he doesn’t show enough creativity when Ireland have penalty advantage. It’s usually a hit and Hope kick to the wing after multiple phases of lads trying to crash over the line.

    Anyway keep giving a different opinion life on here would be a total bore if we all agreed with the one or two.


    I would pick Sexton ahead of Russell everyday of the week. But will we still see the same Sexton after a 6 month injury layoff?

    38 years old. If he’s still standing after 50mins of the Springbok game it will be a minor miracle.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    kick chasers need to be on the money all game... kicking long to the bokke back three (kolbe / arensde / le roux / mapimpi) and giving them time and space would be madness.

    the difference between the Schmidt game and now is that back then we would be dropping box kick bombs from SA 10 meter line. Now, we play first to narrow defenses and kick when the space is available.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Jalibert takes risks

    Carreras takes risks

    Mo'unga takes risks

    Sexton takes too few risks

    Russell takes too many risks



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    One of that list has won WPOTY, been nominated a few other times, and will go down in the record books as one of the very best 10s of the professional era, from any country. He's not perfect but I'd say it's probably him who takes the appropriate number of risks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Agreed, but is it not also the case that Jalibert, Carreras & Mo'unga all face greater competition for their starting place at international level than JS has had to encounter ?. If anything this aspect should mean he should take more risks, with fewer consequentila threat to his selection, than those 10's whose selection is less guaranteed.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Richie Mo'unga is actually a pretty risk averse out half. Hes much more of an organising and controlling 10 when compared to his competitors for the jersey ie DMCK and Beauden Barrett.

    Carreras is a full back playing at 10, and his lack of management is a testament to that. His style suits argentina as they very often will put a centre or 15 a their first receiver. They are not what youd call a percentage based controlling team.

    Sexton doesn't have to take so many risks because his greatest asset is his on field management and ability to manipulate defenses, often 2 or even 3 phases ahead. He doesnt have to throw a risky pass because he knows when a player should be there and if theyre not, he doesn't throw it.

    Hes not "risk averse" but more "risk proof"



  • Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    He's not "risk averse" but more "risk proof"

    Excellent analysis.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Disagree.

    10’s shouldn’t take more risks because they have lesser competition for the jersey.

    They should take (appropriate) risks that fit with the game plan.

    Sexton is streets ahead in that regard.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    we look solid and organised in defense

    Agreed, I think we’re looking excellent in defence tbh. Particularly on kick-transition where we invariably either win the ball back, or completely smother the opposition.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    100% agree with this. I think a large part of the reason he didn’t go is because, due to the timing of the EI tour, they couldn’t take both Crowley and Healy. It’d have left us too short at 10.



  • Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Agreed. But if Sexton exemplifies this approach & RB is his lesser talented clone, where does this place Crowley ?. He offers a different approach (& here I'm going to substitute 'risk' and introduce 'variation' from the bench.) JS's talent is the ability to bring the trained for option into the dynamic on field action. Can Crowley achieve this & add his athletic versatility ?. I'd love to see him get even better.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Can Crowley achieve this & add his athletic versatility 

    that is the question everyone wants to know the answer to. Hopefully he can, because he has all the athletic traits to be a top 10, whereas RB has the management, but will never have all the athletic traits to be a top 10.

    There have been many, many athletic out halves who have never made it to the top level due to their inability to control, orchestrate and manage. hopefully Crowley (or sam prendergast behind him, or even harry byrne at this stage) can develop their organisational game to a level similar to sexton.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 201 ✭✭ljsulster


    Interesting that Farrell opted to bring 4 specialist centres, I wonder how he’ll use them?

    For me,

    v Romania- Mccloskey,Henshaw

    v Tonga- Aki Ringrose

    V S Africa- Mccloskey Ringrose

    V Scotland- Aki Henshaw



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Personally, in terms of approach, I don’t see Crowley as all that different.

    We’ve seen him being tasked with late decision making and passing in the latter part of last season, and doing really well.

    I remember reading one report after the URC final that memorably described his performance as “passing under the Stormers noses” which summed it up quite well.

    I think he can do that and still offer the running threat that RB doesn’t.

    Fwiw, with regards nuts and bolts, I think Crowley’s kicking from hand has come up a level. He’s put in some exceptional kicks in the 2 starts during the warm-ups.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    V S Africa- Mccloskey Ringrose

    what is that madness???

    Right now its Aki - Ringrose with 23 henshaw.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Unless there is an injury issue I think it's most likely we see the same starting centres in 3 of the pool games. We'd be losing a lot of continuity chopping and changing as above.



  • Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    If the goal is have everyone play 2 pool games then yeah, why not. But I don't see that as the goal.

    You could use those options but who's on the bench in that scenario ?.

    4 specialist centre yes, but it's really three 12's and one 13. Henshaw's is a better 12 than 13 imo.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Ringrose is starting every single important game he is available for, as always.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    Sexton is the archetypal pivot outhalf - The best proponent of it..ever!

    Byrne is more of a pocket outhalf who doesn't make decisions on the hoof as well as Sexton or provide a real gain line threat.

    Crowley can play a bit of both but has a greater line break threat. What has impressed me most about him recently is that he can play off script and make good decisions under pressure.

    Crowley will keep defenses guessing and I think the better option/player to bring on from the bench.



  • Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    True, but keeping defences guessing means having your attack being ready & able to 'play off script' whenever Crowley does. RB's value, predictabilty & keeping to the script, may be also his weakness.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    To us a boxing analogy , lesser boxers throw lots of punches hoping some will land , the best boxers only throw punches they know will land.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    By 'play off script' i'm thinking when the Springbok defense comes out to blitz and closes down the passing options. Crowley has shown against the Stormers and even against Samoa that he can make good decisions and execute under pressure.

    I think Farrell wants to use a similar backline from the Samoa game for the Tonga game to build that cohesion around Crowley.



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