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Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,231 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    But we're told we have a legal obligation to house asylum seekers, if we don't they'll go to the high court and force the provision of accommodation. Does Belgium operate under some different international law?



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    So an Irish family living out of a hotel room or on the streets aren't eligible for social housing?

    I'd love to see you sit down in front of that Irish family and explain how an Italian or Indian family has been handed a social home instead.

    An insane policy, and one that should have been ring-fenced years ago. It should be done today.


    A family or person from another eu country in an Irish social home must have some brass neck watching those homeless figures grow month upon month. Titanium.

    Post edited by hymenelectra on


  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    "Sorry, you're under a legal obligation to stick a fork in your eyeball"

    No, is the simple answer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    What about the size of Ireland compared to, say, the planet Jupiter?

    Are you making the case for sending migrants to Jupiter?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




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  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra




  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Why is the population of the antarctic so much lower than that of Ireland?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Yes, look at the likes of Norway, Finland, Denmark, Scotland etc.

    The idea that we are "overpopulated" simply doesn't hold up. Large parts of rural Ireland are emptier than they should be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,795 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Yes that is correct.

    Does ireland have the available housing and services available currently to increase the population to those similar sized countries?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,795 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Which parts or rural ireland are emptier than they should be?

    Then tell me do these areas currently have suitable accomadation and services to put people in the area?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...clearly we dont, but we actually need immigrants to help us create these critical needs, we have completely failed to nurture the process and systems that help us create such services, such as our ability to train people in the trades etc, this has been steadily collapsing for years/decades now, to the point, we simply dont have the manpower to do this. again, we re currently stuck at an output of 30,000 building units per year, where in fact we need at least double this, to meet current demands, but we have no way of actually doing this, without simply bringing the manpower in....

    other critical services such as our health care system, already have significantly high proportion of immigrants working in the system, again, we have completely failed here to, by continually undermining the whole system, under resourcing etc, for years/decades, to the point, a growing number of people are simply leaving the profession, and even the country, due to this.....

    ...it really is a catch 22, dont bring people in, and we simply go nowhere, or more than likely, go backwards in attempting to provide these critical needs....



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,136 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Shure ya can fit 10 families in 1 room. Be grand. Oh wait I mean 10 men from unknown origin.

    Post edited by Mr. teddywinkles on


  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    I'm sorry but this repeated illogic of "There's space, literal empty space, therefore...."

    I'll be honest, this is starting to frustrate the bejaysus out of me. It's such an incredibly, incredibly, incredibly, incredibly stupid argument.


    The antarctic is ridiculously larger than ireland. The reason people don't live there in any amount is because it doesn't have capacity. It doesn't have housing, it doesn't have roads, it doesn't have hospitals, it doesn't have schools, it doesn't have prisons, it doesn't have staff, it doesn't have shops. It doesn't have much at all.

    But it has plenty of literal space!

    So, going by that logic, we should just start exporting people to the antarctic and then....wait for it....complain that the "real problem" is that the just don't have anything down there.

    No!

    Fooking no!

    What kind of a dilapidated intellect would start shipping people to a place clearly without capacity?!

    This is like some kind of a joke, pure teletubby stuff.

    "Why do more people live in X place?" Because they have capacity, dipsywipsy, because they have capacity. Not just literal space.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Population of rural Ireland pre-famine was up around 6m. We've seen huge depopulation in rural areas in the last 100 years (whereas the cities and urban areas have definitely grown).



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Riddle me this, batman.

    If what we "need" are more and more migrants to fill in the infrastructure.....

    ...and after years upon years of more and more people, record population....

    How are things worse??

    Sounds like a trapezoid scheme to me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Do you believe Denmark (6m) and Finland, Norway and Scotland (5.5m) to be "overpopulated"?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,946 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    There are many homeless families not being housed by government. They are staying with family or friends, often times split up.

    these people are not homeless because of a lack of social housing or because 'd foreidners are getting houses ' there is a dysfunctional housing market in this country which has been created by decades of social policies



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Do you really think a comparison of population, literally centuries ago, when people were living in abject poverty, is a good basis for argument on rapid population growth today?

    Coffin ships versus 20 euro Ryanair flights.

    Mud huts versus a modern home.

    Like, do you really believe that shite?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,795 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Ireland functioned on the trade side of things and healthcare before immigration.

    The young people who can build these houses are moving away because they have nowhere to live.

    These are being replaced by people who don't have the required skills to build.

    We do have a way of doing it, it is cutting benefits that attract people here who will leave and people who can build stay here.

    Our healthcare system functioned without immigrant workers, our young healthcare workers again are moving away because they have nowhere to live, an overhaul of the system is needed also.

    It is not really a catch 22, we are bringing in people making it worse while we are not actually doing anything to improve services.

    So we are underpopulated based on similar sized countries because we don't have the accomdation or services that they have.

    So do you think at this point in time, where the goverment are doing nothing that it is sustainable to keep bringing in people?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,795 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Yes and people lived in poverty and multiple kids to a bed.

    Again you sidestepped the answer.

    Where do we have rural areas where we have suitable accomadation and service to provide for these people?

    I am not talking about pre famine, we are talking about ireland now, you said we have rural areas to bring in more people.

    Name the areas you are talking about and stop rambling on about the past that has no relevance to the services we can provide for the current population.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,795 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Do those countries have people living in tents, hotel rooms, abandoned buildings and on the streets?

    Is there healthcare system overwhelmed and all other services under massive pressure?



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    So, there's even MORE people fooked over by the housing shortage than just those in hotels and on the streets.

    Well, the revelations never end.

    Funny how there's an increasingly worse housing situation and an increasing imported population. Records smashed on both ends.

    No connection at all though. No siree Bob.


    You've said it yourself, "there's clearly plenty of room here". And any year you'll actually try to back that statement up with a solitary shred of evidence.

    Can't wait.


    Meanwhile, on the subject of Irish social housing, with a background of ballooning homelessness, there should never, ever have been the possibility of anyone other than Irish people given that social housing.

    Zero justification for it. And it should be ringfenced immediately.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    .....again, we ve been over and over this, but you dont seem to be able to process and understand the information, but i ll try again.....

    once again, the financialised approach to property has completely failed, ireland is also not the only country experiencing this problem! what occurs with this ideological approach, is that the state steps back in playing a major role in regards providing critical social needs such as accommodation, and uses its abilities to facilitate and encourage other major parts of the economy, primarily the fire sectors(finance, insurance and real estate), to provide these needs, but the overall objectives of both societal and of the fire sectors are not compatible, as the fire sectors main aims are to maximise financial outcomes, profits, share holder value, etc etc etc

    ...the most common outcome of this approach is highly dysfunctional property markets, serious supply problems, and hyper inflate property prices, again, not only an irish problem....

    ....and yes you are correct, the outcome of this approach is indeed worse, and is worsening over time, as is the case in most, if not all countries that have tried this approach....

    ...and again, yes, the increase in population is adding to this problem, but has not created it!

    ...and yes, it is a trapezoid, as you call it, the ultimate goal of financialisation is indeed to keep creating financial ponzi scheme's, this is why we need to urgently move back towards a more state lead approach in providing critical needs such as property, in order to try reduce the role the fire sectors play in providing this need.....

    ...now really, i cant actually make that any simpler!



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Not having enough housing stock doesn't mean the country is "overpopulated" - it simply means we don't have enough housing stock. It boils down to supply not being able to meet demand. We have the resources to comfortable cater for the needs of our current population - the one thing we are short of is new houses and apartments, as we have been very slow at building them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Transplant that logic of people standing on the antarctic plate with nowhere to live, no hospital care, no schools....

    "Not having enough housing stock in the antarctic doesn't mean its overpopulated with the people that keep arriving, the "real" problem is that the emperor penguins haven't built the housing for them"

    Come on.

    Come fooking on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,946 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Yes, there are far more people homeless in this country then official figures. Those are just registered homeless people, waiting on social housing.

    This is not new information, we have known about this issue for many many years. Spiralling rents, not enough housing being built.

    And why do you think only Irish citizens living here should be assisted?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,946 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    We are one of the richest countries in Europe. Poor policies regarding housing in this country have left us in this position.

    government need to do better. Nobody should be housed in hotel rooms, or living on friends sofas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,795 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    If you have increased homelessness due to lack of housing stock it means the country is overpopulated.

    If you want to go back to the famine times you love to refer to then we are not overpopulated because we can cram multiple kids to a bed like we did in the past.

    So you agree we have the resources to build but we are not building.

    So you agree that we can't continue to bring in people who we cannot house.

    It's all well and good saying we are not overpopulated because we have loads of empty land where we can build houses.

    The reality is we don't have these houses and are not going to build them anytime soon so your point is pointless.

    Do we currently have the houses and services to increase the population to similar sizes countries you referred to?

    Do we have the houses and services to cater for your 6 million pre famine population?

    Now remember we are not talking about services that could exist, but services that actually exist.

    A yes or no will do.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    "Overpopulation" would be determined by a whole range of things : sufficient food, water, medicines, natural resources, energy supplies, public transport, schools, hospitals, finances etc.

    It would never, ever be defined solely by how many houses you have in a country.



This discussion has been closed.
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