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Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    It really goes to show how far the pendulum of insanity has swung. Questions, straight faced, like "why do you think only Irish citizens should be assisted?" Assisted, as in, given social homes, while homelessness balloons.

    The very concept of that question is corrupt.

    Can you imagine the level of indoctrination/detachment from reality for a country with dire housing needs to continue to offer up ridiculously scarce resource to, literally, anyone. EU, non-eu, doesn't matter.

    There's nothing virtuous in it. Nothing. Zero. Self harm is nothing of which to boast.

    Imagine posing this practically rhetorical question in nearly any other country in the world. Good lord you'd be lucky to get out of the place with your skin.

    We're being made fools of, and we're allowing it to happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    There'd be a lot less people living in hotels, streets, on couches if there were a lot less of the people allowed move here in the last few years.

    Simple as that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Should Irish people be stopped moving from to other countries seeing as they are putting pressure on their services and infrastructure there?



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    That's up to other countries. That's their right, their conundrum. Not ours.

    Not without irony, there'd be less Irish people moving abroad if there was less other people arriving into a clearly over capacity state

    Bottom line, as said above: would there be less homeless people if the majority of people allowed in hadn't arrived in the first place?

    The answer is unequivocal: yes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭TokTik


    We already are. I can’t just up sticks tomorrow and move to US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

    Imagine that



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭rgossip30




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,796 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Why would the likes of Australia or Canada not want irish people moving.

    We invest in tradesmen and due to lack of housing they bring those skills over and massively benefit those countries.

    A friend works for a big builder and he is youngest on site in his 30s, yet people think we can magically throw up thousands of houses.

    The peopld we need to build houses are doing it abroad.

    While we import non skilled people who haven't the skill to build houses.

    We invest in healthcare staff who then go abroad and other countries benefit from that investment.

    We then need to bring in healthcare staff from abroad.

    Do people realise before we had to bring in immigrants to work in healthcare that Irish people done the work?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,960 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    What you're suggesting is a two tier system of human rights.

    we don't house anyone, we house people ( or we should be)in this country who have housing needs.

    and your simple 'just house Irish citizens' doesn't really work when there are thousand of grey areas.

    What do you do if a German person who has been living and working here, paying taxes, perhaps settled down with kids, becomes dependant on assistance? Made redundant? Landlord sells up and they have nowhere to go? What if they get sick? You're solution to that is to kick them out of the country? What about their kids? What about the taxes they have paid, or the contribution they have made to society?

    a system where we throw out people who are not Irish when we have no use for them anymore, is disgusting and a serious violation of people's rights.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Yeah you're absolutely bang on, a two tier system.

    Tier one: Your own nation state and own people and elected government who's primary mandate is to it's own people and own nation state.

    Tier 2: some other country and its own people and elected government who's primary mandate is to it's own people and nation state.


    You might even call it the entire history of humanity, from caveman tribes upto state building.

    Wild stuff altogether.




    As to whether an extra-national person cannot afford to live in the State, when the states own people are in dire housing need, and more, yes, that person should not be given an extremely rare resource over someone else who doesn't have an entire whole ass different country go back to.

    Anything less than that is insanity. The policy of a mad man.

    There is no way whatsoever that an Italian, evidently unable to afford live here, be given a social home when they can skip back to Italy any day of the week. What about the Irish person displaced? They can't go anywhere.

    Now, THATS disgusting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Well at least you're spelling out that you are a right wing / far right Irish nationalist. Any person who moves here and pays taxes here is not actually part of the nation in your book.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    You are also bang on.

    Here I am explaining the most obvious stuff in the world, I am, literally Hitler.

    Back from the dead for my latest adventure!


    I don't know what kind of hallucinogenic world these "ideas" come from.

    It explains how things are what they are, that's for sure. Complete and utter detachment from reality. No arguments, no logic, just "Hitler or not hitler". Good stuff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Now that the obvious is out of the way, let me put it to you this way.

    If you had a spare room in your home, enough room for 1 person, and both a complete stranger and your sister turns up homeless, who gets precedent?

    All things being equal?

    Would you be a goose stepping stormtrooper for offering your own sister the place ahead of some stranger?

    I think not. In fact, I might even go so far as to say there's literally no link whatsoever.

    On the contrary, what would it say of your character to turn away your own sister for a plum stranger?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,281 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    You know the perfect fantasy world you created in your head does not exist right? At this stage i can not tell if you genuinely believe what you post or are just high level trolling?

    The worst part of all this is that people like you are allowed to vote.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    And I've pointed out numerous elements of overpopulation that are indeed happening right now. Not just housing.

    I've put up a huge amount of articles and a lot of statistics covering healthcare to crime.

    I've made my argument and I've made it very well.

    So well,in fact, that the last resorts are coming out, like "you must be a far-right nationalist".

    Desperation, is what you call that. A sirens plea to the intellectually malnourished and emotionally overburdened.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,376 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I'm all for immigration in the right circumstances.

    My description of overpopulation is when the important services cannot handle the amount of people living in the country.

    I realise this is a fixable problem but we shouldn't be taking anybody in until it is fixed.

    The health and welfare of all the people already residing here and of those coming in is being ignored.

    So stop immigration, improve and expand the health services, the security services and all other critical services and then open the country up to immigration again.

    As for housing, the big problem is the investment/vulture funds. They are buying up property everywhere, renting it out and enjoying the massive increase in the valuation of their assets. This has to be stopped as has them buying up new housing developments before they are completed. This happened in Maynooth a couple of years ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,281 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Well you must have a very unique definition of overpopulation - so by all means enlighten us?



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    It'll be a cold day in hell before that poster ever backs up their wild assertions.

    I asked them so many times in a row to answer the simplest question I got a warning from a moderator. All this, by the way, after me answering their questions again and again and again.

    According to them, and I quote, "there is clearly plenty of room in the country".

    Asked to demonstrate this in any remote way possible, you're met with literal ignorance.

    It's not an honest debate or discussion at all. But all that does is demonstrate the strength of my argument time and again.

    We're overpopulated, and to go back to the threads purpose, sensibly targeted measures based on that overpopulation is key.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,960 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    People like me?

    People who believe in treating people equally? People that believe in human rights? Well thankfully we don't live in Saudi Arabia and our country does not treat people like trash.

    it's good that threads like this exist though, so we can see exactly who the posters are that don't agree that people should be treated like people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,960 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    I'm glad to see you have dropped the pretence of your overcrowded argument and at last started posting honestly.

    A self admitted ring wing follower



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    You know, when someone says they are literally Hitler back from the grave, you can probably take that as sarcasm.

    More than likely.


    Anyway, I know you're gearing up to justify your statement that "there is clearly plenty of room in the country", so I won't get in your way.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,960 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    I would agree that a temporary halt for a few months on all immigration would be very beneficial, so long as there was an actual plan in place to improve all services that we need. I don't have much hope in our government doing that.

    homelessness has always been a problem, it was pointed out to governments for decades and they ignored it and failed to take any action, indeed committing to policies that have made it much much worse



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    "Commiting to policies that have made it much worse"....like inviting in ever increasing amounts of people year after year after year? Like, overpopulation?

    Yeah, that'd do it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Stresses on housing, services and infrastructure are the most natural thing in in any modern society. They do not equate to a country being "overpopulated".

    How can we have high net immigration if we are overpopulated? Nobody would want to move to a country that is "full".



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,281 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Id be interested to know which of these categories you think we are actually sufficient in?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Nearly all of them, we are one of the richest countries in the world. We have sufficient food, water, medicines, hospitals, schools, energy supply, transport, employment, finance etc for our current population size.

    The one thing we are very short on is housing supply - but that does not equate to an overpopulated country, it simply means we are low on surplus housing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Its an interesting question alright, why would anyone want to move to a country that has less and less of anything to go around?

    Somebody with a particularly high wage job that can afford to outbid everyone else, including locals for resource.

    Somebody from a country that doesn't offer up homes worth hundreds of thousands of euros for a pittance of rent, as in social housing, equivalent in local terms as a home worth millions upon millions.

    Independently wealthy individuals that, again, can outbid everyone, including locals, for dwindling resource.

    People who see one of the most generous, indeed comparatively lavish, social welfare systems in the world. The weekly amount of a social welfare recipient here could easily be several months worth of hard work elsewhere.

    People will sleep in tents for that promise. They'll sleep 6 to a room for that promise. And no doubt you'll soon be seeing them sleep on barges for it too.

    And so forth. There are many explanations, and just about all of them are net negative for the country as a whole.

    Demonstrably so.

    Unless you own the assets pumped by such overcrowding, that is.


    As to your comment on having sufficient everything else beyond housing? Not in this universe is that true.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,281 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    The naivety of that answer just goes to show how little you actually know.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,376 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I completely agree with you on everything you say. It's unbelievable that the same people get voted for time and time again when they break promises and do basically nothing except little things that enhance their profile. As a nation I always believed we were smarter than to fall for empty promises.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,910 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Course there's plenty of room in this country, I've 30 acres and my uncle beside me 100+. Maybe some genius can work out how many tents n bunk beds can be fitted in that space. Someone was on yesterday telling us how many sq kilometres there was here n all.

    Anyone with any questions about school, creche, hospital, infrastructure capacity etc , we'll just respond with is feidir linn!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,796 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    It is not naivety it is outright lying.

    If you asked a secondary school kid they could tell you the state of the health sector never mind an adult.

    The country had to lockdown for sustained periods during Covid over our health sector.

    The health sector is overwhelmed every winter and people are sleeping on trolleys in corridors.

    The waiting times in A and E is a disgrace.

    The number of GPS is reducing and unless its serious its hard to see a doctor.

    But besides everything pointing to the crisis supposedly everything is grand.



This discussion has been closed.
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