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What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    Well, the usual projection deconstruction of every pronouncement leads to one inevitable and alarming question: has he been responsible for murdering someone too?



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,647 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    In the spirit of the other defences, how dare you call him a murderer, it was manslaughter...

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,393 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    For obvious reasons you just don't normally entertain this kind of conversation in politics, but Carlson is desperate for relevance again, and seems to think martyrdom is Trump's last great escape plan?

    But as his conspiracy theory goes, the only people I could imagine even have an intrusive thought about harming the future convicted felon are the ones who shared space on the epstein guest list, that Trump would squeal on for a diet coke in prison.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,779 ✭✭✭✭everlast75




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Good enough for him.

    Presumably that judgement is further evidence/proof that can be used by Willis in her cases against him as well?



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,217 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    My unqualified opinion regarding 2024 and beyond for Donald Trump. Looks into crystal ball on table within an incense smoked darkened room. Mumbles a bit of esoteric Latin while fashioning hands about the glowing orb. Yes! Something prescient emerges.

    1. After several frivolous motions that delay the currently scheduled March 2024 Jan 6 case prosecuted by Smith, Trump is tried and convicted in Washington DC. But before he can be sentenced, he whips out his pocket self pardon made by him days before leaving presidential office.
    2. Smith appeals. A constitutional crisis results from Trump pardoning himself. The US Supreme Court, as stacked by Trump, rules in favor of Trump 6 to 3, and he is self pardoned not only for the Jan 6 conviction, but also for all alleged federal crimes that he may have committed since his birth approximately 78 years ago up to leaving the presidency 20 January 2021.
    3. Several defense motions, often frivolous, but allowed by the Trump appointed US federal judge in Florida delays the alleged documents case originally scheduled for May 2024. Several critical pieces of evidence are thrown out by the Trump appointed judge, resulting in Smith appealing successfully to a higher court, but cause for more delays. The Trump appointed judge continues to reschedule the trial several times. The case does not go to trial until after the November 2024 general election.
    4. The New York State alleged fraudulent business records case concerning the hidden Stormy Danials payments, has been delayed by an agreement between Smith and Bragg per a federal criminal case having precedence over a state case. Trump’s defense team challenges Bragg’s charge that elevated the indictment from misdemeanors to felony levels. Appeals eventually reach the US Supreme Court, stacked by Trump, and it rules in favor of Trump 5 to 4, with Roberts siding with the minority. The NY case does not go to trial before the November 2024 general elections, but only for misdemeanors, which Trump settles out of court for a fine, similar to the Trump University case.
    5. The Georgia Republican controlled state legislature has passed a law that creates a commission that can impeach an elected county prosecutor. The Republican appointees commission impeaches Fani Willis for alleged dereliction of duty, removing her from prosecution before Trump can go to trial in March 2024. Along with all the confusion caused by this, additional confounding of the indictment against Trump and 18 co-defendants occurs, several of which successfully file severance from being tried together, as well as several, but not all, getting their cases moved to federal court. Georgia not only fails to try this case before the November 2024 election, but does not proceed with it in the future given pressures from state Republican officials.

    Ohhhh, the crystal ball clouds from long term covid brain fog. Fathom leaves to make an overdue coffee house appointment.

    Disclaimer: The above crystal ball visions are obviously a mystical fiction that pertains to alleged state and federal crimes, and notes that in the US all defendants are presumed to be innocent until proven guilty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I've heard this term 'pocket pardon' bandied about a few times now, but it makes no sense. Are we to believe that a sitting US president can write themselves a pardon for crimes which they either have not committed or not yet been tried for? That sounds ridiculous and an obvious loophole ripe for terrible abuse.

    Assuming such a pardon exists, Trump would probably be bragging about it, because we can see that he is physically incapable of keeping his mouth shut for any reason.



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,393 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    If we get to the end of point 2 I think the US enters open revolt: the POTUS can engage in open rebellion, treason, insurrection, and pardon themselves and run again? The Constitution doesn't work anymore, so the branches have no more authority. It would be chaos. Nuclear chaos potentially. Nobody's showing up to work that monday, or any other day ending in y.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    I see Mitch McConnell is after freezing again.

    Needs to retire.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,991 ✭✭✭blackcard


    I am pessimistic in relation to Trump. Many times in the past we were led to believe that he would get his comeuppance following some investigation. Because Trump is deluded, it is going to be very difficult to prove that Trump didn't think that he won the 2020 election. Trump is almost guaranteed to be the Republican candidate against Biden. All it needs then is a stumble or stutter from Biden and Trump becomes favourite. It is a sad indictment of the US.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,217 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Look at the Watergate case where Republican President Richard Nixon resigned and was conveniently pardoned by his former, now President by succession Gerald Ford. President Nixon had not been indicted, but was pardoned for alleged crimes he may or may not have committed before his resignation. Of course, this was not a self administered pocket pardon by Nixon, but it did appear to be one for alleged federal crimes he may have committed during his lifetime.

    Now look at the wording of the US constitution regarding presidential pardoning powers. It suggests that the president can pardon, but does not address if he can pardon himself. More than likely that if a president were to pardon himself it would be appealed, especially if convicted of an alleged federal crime, which would more than likely end up before the US Supreme Court. Your guess is as good as mine as to how they may rule.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,435 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Well that's why the Georgia case is so important as it's the only one where he, or any other president, can't pardon him for his crimes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,457 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Not all of Trump's crimes took place before he left office. Whatever about the constitutionality of a blanket pardon for previous crimes, Trump would have had to pardon himself for crimes that he had not yet committed. That turns it from a pardon to a get out of jail free card. I can't see that getting past the supreme court even with the republican majority.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,571 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    And having pardoned himself, which is an admission that he did cause an insurrection etc then it is decided that he cannot stand for election as President again. He continues to weeble to his faithful, which is ignored by everyone else, till he eventually persuades them all to drink bleach. Or something.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭briany


    In that case, Trump would have already been waving his self-signed pardon around. If a pocket pardon is good for any and all federal crimes he may or may not have committed while in office, I really don't see the need to wait until a prosecution gets underway or is even completed.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In other news, McConnell.exe froze again. The usual suspects will talk all day long about Biden being senile, but overlook this guy.




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,664 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Term Limits are one of the small things the US desperately needs; so many folk over 75 in the highest positions in the country, in situations like the Supreme Court are there for life ( I know technically there are mechanisms to remove SC judges but it's exceptional situations)

    As to McConnell, I sympathise to an extent cos cognitive decline is horrible, and so very painful for the families and loves ones. However McConnel basically sat back and allowed Trump to run roughshod over American democracy because it suited the GOP's designs. Ditto the Trumpist wingnuts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,457 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,435 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Not a tia per se. I've had a close family member have those same episodes and they weren't TIAs, I would truly hate to be a family member of his right now



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,518 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Perhaps more like a Petit Mal. Unfortunate for him it has happened in public twice.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 83,393 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    This is huge, potentially.

    Navarro failed at today's pre-trial hearing to demonstrate Trump made a correct assertion of executive privilege. This was his burden to prove for his motions to dismiss his case to succeed. His trial starts Tuesday.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,217 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Presidents are allowed to issue pardons per the US Constitution, Article II, Section 2, Clause 1:

    ”The President… shall have the Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in cases of Impeachment.”

    That’s all it says about pardons. It does not say he cannot pardon himself. The US Constitution is the ultimate law of the land. As to lesser case law, there have not been any rulings that pertain the president self pardoning himself, at lower federal courts, federal appeals courts, or the ultimate US Supreme Court. No case law, because none of the 46 presidents have tried it since the nation’s constitution came into force centuries ago.

    The US Supreme Court is charged with interpreting the Constitution, but ex-post-facto rulings might be problematic, perhaps allowing it to stand in a past case if Trump used it for himself, but outlawed in future cases. That’s a supreme ruling, not mine.

    Furthermore, the US Congress has not passed any laws that would prevent a president from pardoning himself, once again, because none of the 46 have tried it. Then again, because of the separation of government branches, there might be a question if Congress could overrule the US Constitution. Normally such changes would require a constitutional amendment ratified by the required number of the 50 states.

    I’m not qualified to rigorously interpret the US Constitution, case laws, or congressional legislation. I work as a university researcher, but none of the above remotely falls near my domain, so my opinion may be worth 2 cents. Then again, maybe one cent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,659 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Surely it is blindingly obvious that whoever wrote that did not intend that anyone convicted of any crime should have the ability to pardon themselves?

    To have put that proposition to that man would have risked him or her choking on their chocolate croissant and latte.


    To my mind this is an absurd idea that bears comparison with Trump's claim to be able to declassify documents just by thinking about it.

    It also brings to mind the surreal gullibility of his followers who will apparently accept anything that Trump says without any critical filter whatsoever (or maybe knowingly accepting the falsehood but with the base and deceitful aim of discomforting their perceived enemies)



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,217 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Maybe Trump kept his mouth and Truth Social shut in this one unique case? He does seem to allegedly wave things about that are top secret before non-cleared citizens per the documents indictment, or allegedly before foreign diplomats at Mar-a-Lago. But if he waved it about, it would no longer be secret and therefore not a pocket pardon.

    Then why would he delay whipping out his pocket pardon in an attempt to make Smith’s Jan 6 indictment moot? A couple reasons come to mind. First, what did Deep Throat say in the parking garage about how to break Watergate? “Follow the money.” The Trump team claims that they received over $7 million dollars in the three days following his last indictment. Indictments = money for Trump. Maybe state and federal trials will too? During his rallies Trump keeps yelling that he stands between the the #%#x DOJ and his followers, and if they get him, they will be next. So donate! And they do on the millions of dollars.

    Second, there was an old statement decades old by former Louisiana governor and US senator Huey Long, nicknamed the King Fish. To paraphrase, the best news is good news, the second best news is bad news, and the worst news is no news for a politician. And with all this indictment news, Trump is sucking all the air out of the news media. It’s all Trump this, and Trump that during everyday news cycles. Trump is King Fish 2.0



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,393 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,779 ✭✭✭✭everlast75




  • Registered Users Posts: 780 ✭✭✭MICKEYG


    The fact a president can pardon someone, anyone, is a big hole in the seperation of powers. The courts should administer justice, not the politicians.

    I did a quick check and thankfully I can't see anything similar in our law/constitution. If there was, I am thankful that as a nation we are not beholden to 200+ year old attitudes and are very open to updating our constitution so it is fit for purpose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,457 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    I feel you didn't really read my post before replying. Whether he can pardon himself was not the point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,363 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    I think the pardoning may have a use in limited circumstances.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,647 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



This discussion has been closed.
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