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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Aye, its almost like expensive fossil fuels are not appealing to consumers, funny that.

    Still, once we get fossil fuels out of the energy generation mix, power prices won't be subject to the whims of the fossil fuels market which is not know for its stability



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306



    Aye, its almost like expensive fossil fuels are not appealing to consumers, funny that.

    What's funny is that you think they're gonna love the green alternative which is several times the historical price of gas.

    Still, once we get fossil fuels out of the energy generation mix, power prices won't be subject to the whims of the fossil fuels market which is not know for its stability

    Actually, the stability of fossil fuel prices is pretty remarkable outside of periods of war and pestilence:

    What about wind power? ... hmm, seems to be heading the wrong direction, could be something to do with Green fixation on technologies that need unsustainable levels of energy commodities:




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not sure what you are trying to prove by comparing fuel price versus generator price

    Also, the obscene spike masks the variability of gas price. Here, I've fixed that for you by excluding covid/putin related spikes.

    Stable it aint.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,554 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    I think that report excludes a lot of countries. There's 27 in the EU, and only 20 mentioned in that report. Estonia, Germany, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta are all excluded. I don't think you can say anything about EU wide changes when 25% of the countries aren't included in the report! I'll go out on a limb here and declare shenanigans, especially since the authors of the report are firmly against coal

    Where can I sign up for power that isn't using fossil fuels? Until that's a choice, the consumer can whistle all they like, they don't have a choice. Plus, I'd also wager that renewable companies will be equally as greedy and you'll pay for future "green" power based on the whim of the "green" company



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Expensive electricity is not appealing to consumers either.

    For all their talk about the generation energy mix and prices being lower with only renewables, greens do not want to decouple gas or any other fossl fuel from the marginal pricing policy, funny that.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I can't speak to the content selection of the report itself, but there's another good source if you want to delve deeper into country specific data, especially for Germany.

    Its pretty clear which way things are going there too




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    The greens moaning about the electoral commission, they know the writing is on the wall. Speaking of minority groups, gender balance blah blah blah when the truth is they only listen to minority groups etc with the same opinion of themselves.


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/greens-lash-out-at-electoral-commission-as-tds-remain-defiant-in-constituency-redraw/a1266656910.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,228 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Nothing "green agenda" about what they're saying.

    I think for some people members of the green party are living under their beds alongside communists who've been there since the 80s, rent free.

    Wonder who the bogeyman will be next for these people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    That looks pretty stable to me. We'd love to see gas prices rattling between 10 and 28 euro over the course of a decade. Zoom out and include 2020-23. You'll see its largely flat with a bit of noise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306



    Not sure what you are trying to prove by comparing fuel price versus generator price

    Interesting. Maybe you'd like to explain what you were trying to prove, then, when you breathlessly posted the famous "wind power nine times cheaper than gas" quote (N.B. for precisely one day, on August 26th, 2022). In fact I didn't compare the two above, and in previous posts I have always adjusted the MWh prices for the efficiency of CCGT so as not to unduly favour gas.

    Also, the obscene spike masks the variability of gas price. Here, I've fixed that for you by excluding covid/putin related spikes.

    LOL. As the poster above said, if only all sources were so consistent. As you know, gas prices fluctuate with seasonal demand, availability, and secular changes in global demand such as the rise of China. Another recent major change is fungibility -- gas markets were highly regional based on pipeline infrastructure until the advent of large scale LNG transport which is less than a decade old.

    And of course, all those variations are the prime reason for needing gas storage, something that Minister Ryan feigns complete ignorance of as it doesn't fit with the cult narrative. Countries can and do smooth out variations in gas price through hedging and storage. Try doing that for wind? The reason wind generation prices don't fluctuate is that when the wind doesn't blow you can't get it at any price.

    Of course, we're gonna fix that by massively overbuilding wind, and electrolysing water for hydrogen ... all at a cost that must be a major cult secret as the Greens are very reluctant to share it. (On the other hand, it might just be ineptitude judging from the fact that cult leader Ryan has been sitting on the McCarthy energy security report for six months without releasing it. Could be just that his responsibility for ensuring emergency gas generation next winter is in a shambles).

    Speaking of LNG imports, btw, reported in today's Biz Post:

    The EU is set to import record volumes of liquefied natural gas from Russia this year, despite aiming for the bloc to wean itself off Russian fossil fuels by 2027, the FT reports. In the first seven months of this year, Belgium and Spain were the second and third-biggest buyers of Russian LNG behind China, according to analysis of industry data by the NGO Global Witness. Overall, EU imports of the super-chilled gas were up 40 per cent between January and July this year compared with the same period in 2021, before Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    All my life, all I've ever seen is electricity prices that rise. A sensible household now won't put all their eggs in one basket and rely too much on electricity for heating, cooking, transport, mowing the lawn etc etc. Diversify otherwise the hoors will have you over a barrel and you may pay whatever price they demand.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As a user of GoCar on occasion, this is something that is most welcome




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I wonder who you're going to blame if Ryan doesn't retain the Ministerial post after the next election.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Don’t apologise OP, excellent post and very valid pointers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    I agree OP, but I also feel there is a point where FFG’s support will be dragged down by the ineptitude of this green numbskull party - not that support for either of them is in any way healthy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Name the countries please. Please don’t say Germany as I read the green support is haemorrhaging there



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Personally I have no problem with green aspirations as long as the aspirations are not OTT. But Ryan’s answer to everything is tax tax tax.

    He should rather do more sleeping - good for nothing so & so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    The BBC continues it's rampant climate activism. It seem they don't even bother with the truth anymore...

    They have a nice little explainer video here about how the frequency of Atlantic storms has not increased but the number of the most intense storms has. Oddly, they have a graph to accompany the first stat, but not the second. And, awkwardly, their own source doesn't agree with them. You can see that here:

    Here's what the NOAA concluded:

    There is no strong evidence of century-scale increasing trends in U.S. landfalling hurricanes or major hurricanes, although by some measures, U.S. landfalling tropical cyclone activity for 2004-2010 was the strongest in the records since the late 1800s. Similarly for Atlantic basin-wide hurricane frequency (after adjusting for observing capabilities), there is not strong evidence for an increase since the late 1800s in hurricanes, major hurricanes, or the proportion of hurricanes that reach major hurricane intensity.

    In summary, it is premature to conclude with high confidence that human-caused increases in greenhouse gases have caused a change in past Atlantic basin hurricane activity that is outside the range of natural variability, although greenhouse gases are strongly linked to global warming.

    Of course, the NOAA has a lot more to say about the future projections from climate models, including a possible increase in storm intensity even while the frequency of storms decreases. In particular they project increased rainfall from tropical storms and, contrary to the popular image of storm destruction from high winds, it is rainfall that causes by far the most human casualties. I don't mean to downplay any of this -- it's a long paper that can't be summarised in a couple of paragraphs.

    My point is merely to say that the BBC statement that SSTs have led to more intense Atlantic storms in recent years is not supported by the evidence. This clearly raises the ire of climate punters, activist scientists, and alarmists like UN Secretary General Guterres who says that millions of people worldwide are at imminent risk. Indeed, one recent peer-reviewed paper that committed the cardinal sin of saying that extreme events induced by climate change are not yet detectable suffered a retraction by the editors (Alimonti et al. 2022 "A critical assessment of extreme events trends in times of global warming" in SpringerNature). Here is their abstract:

    This article reviews recent bibliography on time series of some extreme weather events and related response indicators in order to understand whether an increase in intensity and/or frequency is detectable. The most robust global changes in climate extremes are found in yearly values of heatwaves (number of days, maximum duration and cumulated heat), while global trends in heatwave intensity are not significant. Daily precipitation intensity and extreme precipitation frequency are stationary in the main part of the weather stations. Trend analysis of the time series of tropical cyclones show a substantial temporal invariance and the same is true for tornadoes in the USA. At the same time, the impact of warming on surface wind speed remains unclear. The analysis is then extended to some global response indicators of extreme meteorological events, namely natural disasters, floods, droughts, ecosystem productivity and yields of the four main crops (maize, rice, soybean and wheat). None of these response indicators show a clear positive trend of extreme events. In conclusion on the basis of observational data, the climate crisis that, according to many sources, we are experiencing today, is not evident yet. It would be nevertheless extremely important to define mitigation and adaptation strategies that take into account current trends.

    A bunch of activist scientists and journalists managed to do a hatchet job on this paper. Having convinced the editors to send the article for further review, two rather vague criticisms resulted in the retraction. One of them was that the authors don't sufficiently define "climate crisis". It seems a bit churlish that, having invented the term to scare the bejesus out of the public, activist scientists would now complain that it's way too vague a term. The other criticism was even weirder:

    Absence of evidence cannot be used as evidence of absence. Detecting trends in extreme events is much more difficult than detecting trends in mean variables. Clearly, the limited amount of data for extreme events makes much more difficult to detect changes in a statistically significant way. The large interannual variability of extreme event statistics means that even if changes are present, the limited amount of data at our disposal makes them undetectable for long times.

    Sure. The fact that there is no detectable trend in extreme events doesn't mean that they haven't increased. It also doesn't mean that they have. That's what science is supposed to be -- an impartial and rigorous analysis of the evidence, with no bitchin' and whinin' when the results don't match your desired outcome. If trends in extreme events are not detectable they are not detectable -- even if that means merely that they are not detectable yet.

    This also begs another relevant question. If climate policy is able to affect the frequency of extreme events, when will we be able to detect that. The short answer is: not in your lifetime or the lifetimes of your children or grandchildren. This is all the more reason to be wary of nutjobs like the Greens who have an extremely narrow view of climate policy which includes a lot of pet concerns that are nothing to do with optimising our response to climate change. It is going to be an extremely long haul -- a century or more -- during which we'll need to rein in Green nihilists who would be only too happy to push us over a cliff.

    Post edited by ps200306 on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Speaking of hurricanes, have you seen the exodus of insurers out of certain markets in the US, Florida had seen 10-15 leave in the last 18 months alone. Many are unable to get affordable insurance on their homes now.

    There's so much damage being caused now that it's no longer a viable insurance market for a lot of insurers



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Even if you do live in a city with a public transport (which do not operate between midnight till 7am) cycling is out of a question for most of the year anyway. I am about to finish my shift and the idea I do cycle home in pissing rain after night shift is well, on a par with window salad box diet....

    Taking bycicle out when you feel like is very different from having to use it when you need to be somewhere.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,228 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    That's a myth about cycling in Ireland that has been well busted over and over at this stage. The stats are out there regarding how many rainy days we have in comparison to countries in which cycling is more prevalent. "Most of the year" is a gross exaggeration.



  • Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭BagofWeed


    These people are actually unbelievable. I can't believe what I'm reading.

    Greens lash out at Electoral Commission as TDs remain defiant in constituency redraw | Independent.ie



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,387 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...its disturbing that we ve had a so called green party in government intermittingly for years now, and yet we still have an astonishingly out of date rail system....

    the increase in cycle infrastructure is critical for our transport needs, but by maintaining this stance on rail, well we may forget about it....



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    This is a report. We’ve had no trouble producing those. Actual delivery is what most people require to meet the definition of progress.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,387 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...again, i appreciate such actions, but this absence has been evident for years/decades now, we re severely behind now, we now need radical action, whatever is proposed simply wont be enough...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    100% agree, we're decades behind for rail

    True and I look forward to seeing some. Funding will be a major issue though, but maybe we can divert further roads funding towards rail to make up the shortfall



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Further evidence of the demise of coal is being seen in Spain where they have pulled in the closure date from 2030 to 2025 for the last remaining coal power generators

    Spain has seen massive growth in the renewable energy sector which coincided with a collapse in the coal generating plants

    They should be further a long except for a bizarre policy reversal years back which saw the rollout of solar come to a grinding halt. This has been recitfied now and its rapidly accelerating the rollout once again




  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    True and I look forward to seeing some. Funding will be a major issue though, but maybe we can divert further roads funding towards rail to make up the shortfall

    Perhaps, given the shortfall in public transport project funding that may be a meritorious idea.

    As you routinely allude to in other threads though, new railways between Claremorris and Athenry aren't possibly the best place to put rail funding.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yup, there's a load in that strategy I don't agree with, but I guess the investment has to start somewhere



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