Starfield

TheAnalyst_ · 31-08-2023 9:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050051#Comment_121050051

And who cares what you think>?

https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/red-dead-redemption-2

Not a bad example at all.

johnny_ultimate · 31-08-2023 9:33am

@TheAnalyst_ - keep it civil, please. No need to be so aggressive.

Penn · 31-08-2023 9:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050051#Comment_121050051

In fairness RDR2 does have a lot of polish and depth. The game's issues lie outside of that (personally I don't think it's a terrible game, but if anything it's plagued with far too much "depth" at the expense of gameplay and fun).

Bethesda games have a reputation for being buggy, there's no denying that. But even after having a big reveal about the launch date, they decided to delay the game for over 9 months. You would have to expect that given the reputation their games have for being buggy, that they delayed in order to minimise that as much as possible. So I think at least pre-launch, they should be given the benefit of the doubt. After all, they were willing to give a review copy to Digital Foundry, but not Eurogamer. Giving a copy to DF, you would hope that they're pretty confident about the technical side of things.

murpho999 · 31-08-2023 10:10am

Do people not think that companies and people have the ability to learn, adapt and improve?

Bethesda released Fallout 76 and it took buggy releases to a whole new level.

They were quite correctly pilloried for it, and at the time of the Microsoft acquisition, I heard Todd Howard talk about how much pain that caused and what a mistake it was.

I think since then they have been determined to make amends with Starfield, and being owned by Microsoft has probably taken the financial pressure off and the urgency of release, hence the delay last year which is always good in my opinion.

I'm convinced by above and early whispers of the game that it is very polished and bug free,

The only issue is if it is a good enjoyable game which we'll find out later today when the review embargo lifts.

TheAnalyst_ · 31-08-2023 10:13am

It's the engine. No amount of polish can avoid the issues it causes.

murpho999 · 31-08-2023 10:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050262#Comment_121050262

You know nothing about the engine as Creation 2 is brand new.

So why not wait until the reviews and the game is out before passing on biased non factual opinions?

DarkJager21 · 31-08-2023 10:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050262#Comment_121050262

Here's a crazy idea, how about you wait until people actually play the game before writing it off? You've done nothing in this thread but **** on it from every possible angle and you haven't even played the **** thing.

TheAnalyst_ · 31-08-2023 10:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050303#Comment_121050303

Brand new hahaha. Ok so why does it give the exact same feeling of oblivion when you see it in action in the leaks.

Retr0gamer · 31-08-2023 10:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050303#Comment_121050303

Because that's a load of old nonsense. It's the same with Activision saying that the Call of Duty engine is brand new. Sure the renderer is more modern and has been completely rewritten but the actual logic that controls the physics and collision of the game is still Quake 3 Arena.

It's the same with the so called Creation 2 engine. It's a totally modern renderer with modern features but the underlying game logic is the same game logic that's been hacked and duct taped on to since Morrowind's version of Gamebryo. Unless Bethesda have gone against previous form it should still have all the same bugs due to it's physics and collision engine and even if they fix the majority of them it's still going to feel the same as it did back on Morrowind right down to the weird zoom all their games do when talking to NPCs.

TheAnalyst_ · 31-08-2023 10:37am

Surely they would have fixed hte memory issues if it was a new engine. So you could have seamless travel from planet to planet and not have boundaries and loading screens at every point.

Retr0gamer · 31-08-2023 10:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050373#Comment_121050373

Would require a massive engine re-write to handle something like that, something Bethesda would not be willing to do. At that stage they would need to be thinking about a brand new engine. I know Star Citizen does this but Star Citizen also has a custom engine that I don't think would be possible on console hardware. It relies on 64-bit processing and while the current consoles are capable of that, most games (even on PC) rely on 32-bit processing to keep processing and memory overheads low. At the scales needed for this to work you either need procedural generation LODs like No Man's Sky or 64-bit processing to alleviate floating point inaccuracy. Both would be a new engine or a major engine re-write and I very much doubt gamebryo would be easy to adapt to either considering the code base is only held together by the sheer optimism of Todd Howard.

Static M.e. · 31-08-2023 10:49am

So, tomorrow we will be able to play if we purchase early access. The embargo on reviews will also be lifted tonight. I think that puts us in a good position to watch a review or two tomorrow before deciding to purchase or not with little time lost.

Based on some of the comments above, who do you think would be worth watching a review from to make a decision?

Most of the YouTubers I follow have not been given Review copies in advance so I can't rely on them.

Thanks

murpho999 · 31-08-2023 10:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050373#Comment_121050373

None of what you say has been confirmed and also would not mean an issue with the engine.

You clearly just don't like the game and or Bethesda/Xbox/Microsoft so hardly worth engaging with.

TheAnalyst_ · 31-08-2023 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050428#Comment_121050428

I've had xboxs since 2004 and played hundreds of hours of Bethesda rpgs until FO4 which was rubbish.

pixelburp · 31-08-2023 11:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121049868#Comment_121049868

My resting technical spitball is the physics uses some kind of grid logic; simple geometries for the bounding box used by the physics engine, and when interacting with each other can only do so along specific nodes in the geometry (hence why you can only ever combine along certain points). It's still a massive undertaking the physics engine never fails, but I suspect they pared back the functionality. And TBH more engines should do the same - not everything needs to interact with each other with the same level of exactness.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050402#Comment_121050402

You also skipped the critical detail that Star Citizen isn't officially released (right ?) and continues to be in development

Sephiroth_dude · 31-08-2023 11:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050421#Comment_121050421

You've nothing to lose as its on gamepass, so if its something you're interested in playing give it a whirl and make your own mind up on it, don't be waiting for youtubers or anyone else to tell you if its a good game or not.

johnny_ultimate · 31-08-2023 11:32am

I think the question is more whether it's worth paying to play over the weekend, rather than waiting for the general GamePass release next week :)

Truth is we don't exactly know who'll be reviewing it today. The only thing we know is a lot of outlets and YouTubers haven't received copies yet - most of the ones I personally tend to gravitate towards, honestly. That's definitely coloured my expectations of today's review drops, and I'll be approaching the early feedback with a pinch of salt. But there are still IMO genuine, interesting reviewers out there so hopefully some of them will have received copies and will be weighing in later on whether it's good, bad, or indifferent. I like the Nextlander guys, for example, and I know they'll be chatting about it on their podcast later as it's out later than usual due to the embargo.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the 'pay 30 quid extra for a few days early access' model of releasing, as I think it's a cheeky way to extract more money from fans, although at least this one does come with an expansion down the line. But everyone's financial situation will vary so whether spending extra is worth it will of course differ from person to person.

Kiith · 31-08-2023 12:00pm

I'm busy this weekend anyway, so no brainer for me to wait for the general release on GamePass.

murpho999 · 31-08-2023 12:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050608#Comment_121050608

There will be tons of reviews out today and I think a bigger deal is being made of review codes being held back to a few UK outlets, many with an anti Xbox bias like Metro UK.

Funny thing is Sony do the exact same thing and doesn't get as much attention.

As for early release fee, I can get it through Gamepass for €31 but don't think I'll have time to play it so think I'll wait for it to release on Gamepass next week.

xtal191 · 31-08-2023 12:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050765#Comment_121050765

You can get the premium add-on for about €18 using the Turkish store

johnny_ultimate · 31-08-2023 12:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050765#Comment_121050765

A majority of the outlets I gravitate to for robust reviews (Eurogamer, Metro, Edge, RPS) have said they didn't get code in time for embargo, so yeah I'm more than happy criticising Bethesda for their approach here. To accuse them of some anti-Xbox bias is silly and unfounded, frankly, and Microsoft has happily given them all code before. Indeed, Metro came out and said Microsoft themselves seem frustrated with the situation - so this is a Bethesda blunder, and I'm not sure why it's being defended, regardless of your thoughts on the individual publications.

Can you point to examples of Sony - or indeed Microsoft or Nintendo - denying review code to a swathe of relatively high-profile publications? More than happy to criticise them for the same practice if so, but personally not aware of any recent examples of this happening :)

McFly85 · 31-08-2023 12:20pm

I find it difficult to believe that any publication has a negative bias against a platform that’s so strong that they’ll publish a negative review of a game for it regardless of whether it’s any good or not. There are publications that are generally more critical across the board, and that mixed with some confirmation bias can make it seem like there’s an agenda when there isn’t one.

There’s probably independents/YouTubers that fall into that category but most of them are akin to influencers who get early screenings of films and gush all over it.

I think it’s very unusual for a game with so much hype and advertising around it to not have review copies for major publications(of which Edge and Eurogamer would have to be included). Especially when there happy to send review code for tech analysis only. So it certainly seems like they’re trying to game the metascore in the short term to convince people who may have been waiting for gamepass to chuck down the money to play it earlier.

I expect the metascore to be 90+ by the end of the day with it settling to around the 85 mark when the dust settles, which is still ridiculously good.

johnny_ultimate · 31-08-2023 12:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050840#Comment_121050840

There are absolutely platform-biased publications out there - I will naturally take what Dualshockers have to say about PS exclusives with a heavy grain of salt, or what NintendoLife or whatever have to say about Nintendo releases :)

Ditto someone like Tom Warren with The Verge - I think he's actually a really good, solid news reporter on the Microsoft beat (he offered some best-in-class coverage of the recent FTC stuff), but he's so deeply embedded on the Xbox circuit and in that community that I'd also approach his opinion on Xbox exclusive games with an additional layer of scrutiny. But I don't think he hides his biases or is actively dishonest or anything silly like that.

I've heard places like Eurogamer repeatedly accused of being anti Sony in one comment section and then in the next comment section of being anti Microsoft - usually a good signal that they're actually being fair and balanced 😂

murpho999 · 31-08-2023 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050811#Comment_121050811

https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/23/games-inbox-is-starfield-already-overrated-19001270/

https://metro.co.uk/2023/07/02/5-reasons-why-starfield-is-going-to-be-a-disappointment-19050649/

I think above two links could be perceived as anti Starfield/Xbox by many.

johnny_ultimate · 31-08-2023 12:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050901#Comment_121050901

One of those is a letter's page, and the other is a reader's feature (a long-standing GameCentral novelty). They are not the publication's own editorial line. And why shouldn't publications criticise a Microsoft or a Sony anyway? Both have frequently deserved robust criticism for their carry-on or, indeed, the games they have released. The idea that criticism automatically makes them systematically 'anti' something is nonsense.

Here's another reader's feature, about how 'Sony is asleep at the wheel' - seems to me they're simply offering a plurality of reader opinions as opposed to any active bias :) Not everything is some big old fanboy war!

https://metro.co.uk/2023/08/26/sony-is-asleep-at-the-wheel-and-the-ps5-is-suffering-19399058/?ico=mosaic_tag

Retr0gamer · 31-08-2023 12:50pm

The supposedly anti-bethesda eurogamer put out a (excellently written) fluff piece tying into starfield which would count as advertising for the game

https://www.eurogamer.net/how-realistic-is-starfield-we-ask-the-european-space-agency

murpho999 · 31-08-2023 12:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050921#Comment_121050921

Ok fair enough, I'm basing my opinion on you tube videos I watched last night and they explained the reasoning behind it but they could be biased too of course.

Personally don't use Metro or Eurogamer as I find the websites terrible to get around on.

I do think there's definitely something in Bethesda not giving to Kotaku associates.

Anyhow, I do think the fact they they gave review codes out to a lot of outlets, very early shows their confidence in the game so we shall see what happens.

TheAnalyst_ · 31-08-2023 1:05pm

My guess is a 78 metascore after the dust settles.

johnny_ultimate · 31-08-2023 1:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051002#Comment_121051002

TBH, given the outlets themselves don’t seem to know why they’re excluded, other than being based in the UK, I wouldn’t take any YouTuber who claims to ‘know’ the reason for the blackout too seriously.

Even Keza MacDonald, who initially wondered if it might be Kotaku related, says she doesn’t actually know. And, based on the range of sites affected / unaffected, it seems extremely unlikely that’s the actual reason.

https://x.com/kezamacdonald/status/1696562319097057439?s=46&t=nwvJe3fJtU0siJ7wj5mjTA

Retr0gamer · 31-08-2023 1:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051002#Comment_121051002

Well if you are afraid of getting a biased opinion from someone with an agenda then youtube videos trying to get clicks with faux outrage about this controversy are where you'll get your fill of bias.

**** Starfield ****

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Starfield