Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions Read OP before posting

hymenelectra · 30-08-2023 5:48pm

There are just far, far too many bad situations echoing variations on "not enough/stretched thin/no space" for it to be a coincidence.

If something could be pointed to as "that's much better" regarding infrastructure, or "that's fixed", you'd have something to go off.

But it's fair to say that the mantra of needing more migrants to fix this and that just simply hasn't translated to reality. After years and years of it, not to mention the record breaking population, there's simply zero proof of it being beneficial.

On the contrary, it appears to be feeding the existing problems, and creating new ones to boot.

It is THE hot topic in the country. And anyone that has human contact is aware of its growing recognition.

Ahwell · 30-08-2023 6:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121047428#Comment_121047428

We do not have "one of the most generous, indeed comparatively lavish, social welfare systems in the world". In fact, we have the lowest ratio of government social protection expenditure to GDP in the EU.

OECD_Social_Expenditure_by_Braunch.svg.png

TokTik · 30-08-2023 6:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121047413#Comment_121047413

There was talk of rolling blackouts only a few months ago as data centres are taking something like 25% of our grids electricity. When did the energy infrastructure get a massive overhaul??

We’re literally pumping raw **** into the sea on some parts of the island as our sewage infrastructure is crumbling.

Every day we currently lose about 37% of our treated water through leaks before it even reaches our taps. From water.ie

hymenelectra · 30-08-2023 6:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048150#Comment_121048150

First of all, using Irish gdp as a measure of anything has become meaningless. A black box.

Secondly, most of the social systems across Europe use a benchmarked rate of social support. In other words, if you work x amount of time, x years at x wages, yes, you get more money. For a limited time.

But in several countries, it isn't benchmarked. Its essentially a flat rate, and on those terms, it makes us supremely generous.

From an older article, 2017, but it'll scale appropriately..

"For instance, in the UK, the rate of unemployment benefit is £73.10 (€82.70) per week (less than 15% of UK’s average earnings) for a single person and £114.85 per week (€129.90) for a couple.

“In Malta, the rate is €40.25 per week for a single person (less than 13% of average weekly earnings) and €61.55 per week for a married couple.

“In Poland, the maximum rate (for a person working for more than 20 years) is €225.60 per month, or €52.06 per week (approximately 23% of average weekly earnings) with no increases for couples or family supplements.”

And ireland at the time was 193 euro.

That unbenchmarked rate is going to be very, very attractive to certain groups of people. No need to work previously, no time limit and so on.

So yeah, I stand by it being comparatively lavish compared to the world.

suvigirl · 30-08-2023 6:46pm

🙄 I would think countries where the cost of living is lower, would obviously have lower assistance payments.

Ahwell · 30-08-2023 6:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048292#Comment_121048292

Ireland possesses the sixth lowest replacement rate for single unemployed people with no children within the OECD,i.e., comparing income prior to unemployment with income from welfare after unemployment.. We have the 5th lowest pension replacement rates.

enricoh · 30-08-2023 7:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048150#Comment_121048150

Comparing anything as a percentage of our 'leprechaun economics' GDP is farcical. The dole in the north is peanuts compared to down here.

suvigirl · 30-08-2023 7:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048398#Comment_121048398

So is the cost of living

Ahwell · 30-08-2023 7:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048398#Comment_121048398

Show me how Ireland has "one of the most generous, indeed comparatively lavish, social welfare systems in the world" then?

eagle eye · 30-08-2023 11:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048447#Comment_121048447

How about if you are a single income family earning 50k per annum and paying rent you would be better off not working.

Ahwell · 31-08-2023 7:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121049435#Comment_121049435

We have full employment. The unemployment rate reached a record low in May of this year. The long term unemployment rate is just 1.2%. When people have a choice, they choose to work.

rgossip30 · 31-08-2023 10:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121046587#Comment_121046587

All these countries can be entered as a tourist and they can work illegally , if caught get deported . I would not fancy my chances on claiming asylum like you can on treasure Ireland .

RobbieTheRobber · 31-08-2023 10:47am

I wonder how much the replacement theory folks intersect with the anti social housing having children crowd folks.

Like are they worried about us being replaced by non white immigrants whilst also worried about white Irish people on social benefits having children.

Just a thought.

silverharp · 31-08-2023 11:10am

With the CAO offers out yesterday, there is going to be a lot of moaning about accommodation shortages, they are going to need to check their white privilege

lmao10 · 31-08-2023 11:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050504#Comment_121050504

Maybe they can start making white privilege jokes online.

Strazdas · 31-08-2023 11:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050412#Comment_121050412

People may have forgotten but in the late 2000s, it was "benefits scroungers" who were the main target for the Daily Mail and their readers, not refugees or immigrants. Every day for ages, there were articles about how they were ruining things for everyone, taking all the social housing, putting pressure on schools etc.

Ahwell · 31-08-2023 11:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050676#Comment_121050676

Dole bashing threads would of been all the rage on boards.ie back then.

Stephen_Maturin · 31-08-2023 1:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121047413#Comment_121047413

How do you think you can post such nonsense and not get called on it

You're either a liar or you live under a rock - many of the services you listed there as being fine are in fact in rag order (as I’m sure you know)

https://www.thejournal.ie/hospital-overcrowding-ireland-2-6156803-Aug2023/

Patrick2010 · 31-08-2023 1:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051015#Comment_121051015

Not to mention waiting lists, not very "fine"

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2023/05/24/over-10000-children-with-disability-left-waiting-more-than-a-year-to-see-specialist/

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40938776.html

eagle eye · 31-08-2023 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121049803#Comment_121049803

What has this got to do with what I was saying?

I was just stating a fact. I didn't say many people would want to do it. I'm just pointing out how our welfare system is way better than anywhere.

The reason I know this is that I'm out of work due to illness for the last 13 months. I have multiple serious things going on including cancer just so you know I'm genuinely not well. I earn a lot more than 50k and while I'm struggling it's not awful, like I can easily pay my mortgage, bills etc.

Now I own my house so I'm not renting. If I was renting and didn't have a mortgage I'd be in really good shape because you get that paid for you as well.

Basically I'm a man whose worked for 30+ years and people who never worked, and never bought a house are financially better off weekly than I am.

It's too much, if you don't want to work and have three kids you are better off than a one income family earning 60k per annum.

I have one child and my wife is my carer, we are getting €558 per week. Between my mortgage and household bills I'm paying out around €200 per week. We've got €358 per week for food and fuel.

A person renting is paying out bills of about €60 per week.

Strazdas · 31-08-2023 1:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051015#Comment_121051015

Are you suggesting those hospital waiting lists are caused by the country being "overpopulated"? Most migrant workers don't even use the health service (being young and healthy).

Ahwell · 31-08-2023 2:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051305#Comment_121051305

There is plenty of research on this, according to the ERSI 94% of Irish people are better off in employment than out of work – even after taking account of childcare and travel to work costs. Of the remaining 6%, even though they would be “better off on the dole”, most are actually in work.

Our welfare system is not "way better than anywhere", it's middling at best.

Geuze · 31-08-2023 2:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048150#Comment_121048150

As we all know, GDP is distorted in Ireland, it is inflated, so it should not be used as a denominator in ratios.

Stephen_Maturin · 31-08-2023 2:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051330#Comment_121051330

I’m suggesting our health service is insufficient to meet the levels of demand it receives. Population is a factor in that demand.

Can you please provide some evidence for your claim that they don’t access the health service. I’ve never heard such a thing, don’t see why they’d be different from anyone else in that regard. Young people can still need medical attention too.

IlovemybrickFC · 31-08-2023 3:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051809#Comment_121051809

I’ve just been sent for “urgent” scans - appointment is 11 November.

I agree with immigration, it is needed for any society to flourish - but our current policy of taking in anyone who has a good sob story is affecting our own people adversely.

To suggest that people arriving here don’t access healthcare as they are young and healthy is ludicrous - how can anyone possibly know that ??

TokTik · 31-08-2023 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121052077#Comment_121052077

I never understood this airy fairy nonsense “immigration, is needed for any society to flourish”.

if that’s so, aren’t we robbing Africa of the chance to flourish? Why aren’t we encouraging Nigerians to head to Ethiopia? Kenyans to Burkino Faso? Zimbabweans to Zambia?

There are many cultures in Africa, the place should be absolutely buzzing. Why aren’t the blue haired NGO brigade heading over to bring this flourishing utopia to African countries? Why hoard it all in Europe? Are they secretly colonialists, wanting all the flourishing societies in Europe??

cdeb · 31-08-2023 4:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121052118#Comment_121052118

It's a valid point, and one Simon Reeve has made in his BBC travelogues, particularly in Central America. I think it was Honduras or Guatemala he was talking about when he said 10% of the population intended leaving the country in the next ten years, and then asked how the country was supposed to grow when facing that sort of brain drain. There's countries in eastern Europe that have lost 25% of their population in the last 30 years - same argument. But nobody cares about them. It's always mé féin stuff.

You mention colonialists, and certainly there's an argument that what the west is doing now is the same as ever it did - taking raw materials from poorer countries and transplanting them to the west for us to make money at their expense. Trees, diamonds, minerals, people - does it matter what? Is it not the same outcome?

I saw earlier in thread suvigirl asking who would do our low-paid jobs if we didn't have immigration - a comment borne of pure self-entitlement. We did our own office cleaning for decades. There's people who'll do it now. Not at the terms office cleaners offer now of course - minimum wage, no sick pay, no pensions. I know of some who don't even pay annual leave - if you want to go home for a while, they let you go and re-hire you when you return. Of course, it keeps things cheap - but is that really the ultimate aim of society? To have things cheap? Wouldn't we have a more equitable and inclusive society if we respected lower jobs and actually paid them a reasonable wage? And wouldn't we have a more equitable and inclusive world if, say, some tech firms - not having enough staff in Ireland to operate - opened centres elsewhere in the world and spread wealth more equitably?

It'd be lower carbon too. Emigration ultimately is the reason why commercial flights now are at an all-time record high (and long-distance travel in particular). We're building houses for people who already have houses. Both fairly big carbon impact activities.

But nope. Cheap office cleaning (or fruit picking or meat packing) wins the day. Because ultimately we don't care about anyone other than ourselves.

TokTik · 31-08-2023 4:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121052172#Comment_121052172

Excellent summation 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Ahwell · 31-08-2023 4:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121052118#Comment_121052118

In 2020, around 21 million Africans were living in another African country, a significant increase from 2015, when around 18 million Africans were estimated to be living within the region.

0ph0rce0 · 31-08-2023 4:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051330#Comment_121051330

Type any Irish hospital into google and look at the reviews. Also look at the names of the people leaving those reviews. Bad reviews at that.

Take Dublin hospitals for instance I see way more foreign names than Irish names.

Migrants don't use hospitals or the health service. Laughable.

Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

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Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions Read OP before posting