Long tail electric cargo bike recommendations?

the_amazing_raisin · 14-07-2023 4:13pm #1

Hi folks,

I'm looking around for a longtail cargo bike that I can bring the kids around on. Something like a Radwagon, only not a Radwagon since they're leaving the EU

I had my eye on the Decathlon R500 cargo bike, but unfortunately my employer won't do the bike to work scheme with them so looking around for other options

Budget is €3k, which rules out a lot of the options from Tern or others. I could raise the budget but there's a point where I might as well just get the Decathlon bike without the tax savings

Probably the closest I've found is the Yuba Kombi, which is only slightly over budget 😕

There's also another one by Whale (never heard of them) but it can only carry 120kg, which doesn't leave much for kids after my fat 100kg a$$ is on the bike 😭

Any other recommendations?

kenmc · 18-07-2023 1:27pm

Also Kona Ute, pretty sure they do eversion. Tern cycles also.

the_amazing_raisin · 18-07-2023 7:59pm

Thanks!

The problem with the Tern is once you go beyond €4,400 on the bike to work scheme it's actually cheaper to get the Decathlon bike without the scheme

A €4,400 would effectively cost €2,900 after the tax savings

A Tern GSD seems to start from €5k, so that's beyond the budget unfortunately

Now I might get a much better bike for the money, that is worth considering

I think the Kona Ute might be out of production, can't find it anywhere on their website 😕

Peterx · 19-07-2023 2:47pm

I managed to borrow the Decathlon one for a spin from a friend of a friend. It was very nice to cycle, felt much more like a normal bike than any of the Multitinker/GSD/Fetch shapes.

With the one bike to work the Decathlon is a no brainer - it works really well. I would think that's it weight+overall length means it only works in a house with a side passage or a detached house. The man I borrowed one from said it's only only downside is that it's very cumbersome/heavy for lifting/shifting about the place and with our tiny hall it wouldn't have worked.

If you have the option of 2 x bike 2 work vouchers then the Trek Fetch 2 comes in at 5.2k - before the (frankfully upselling) requirement to buy mudguards or a child cage bringing it to 5.6k.

The Riese and Muller Multitinker seems a lovely machine - but it would want to for the money!

The Tern GSD wasn't available anywhere.

We got the Trek Fetch 2 last week. It's maybe 20cm shorter than the Multitinker, which was a plus point for me.

the_amazing_raisin · 19-07-2023 3:15pm

Yeah I gotta admit the weight of the Decathlon bike is a bit of a concern, close to 40kg 😳

I guess the weight reflects the price somewhat, probably more steel in the frame compared to more expensive bikes

I suspect I'm looking for a bit of a unicorn in that I want an expensive bike for budget money. The Yuba Kombi and Trek Fetch+ 2 are probably the closest in price to my target, I'm just a bit annoyed at how much expensive upgrades are needed to get to the level of the Decathlon bike

Out of curiosity, have you tried any of the bikes with a kid (or two) on the back? My main worry would be about balancing a heavy bike witb around 30-50kg of children on the back, feels like it would be easy to topple if one of them chose a bad moment to start dancing about

One thing I've learned as a parent is that dance mode can happen at any time without warning 😂

magicbastarder · 19-07-2023 3:19pm

what sort of motors do these bikes typically have? the decathlon one has a hub gear, which in certain use cases is not ideal.

the_amazing_raisin · 19-07-2023 3:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120871156#Comment_120871156

The more expensive ones like the Tern, Trek or Yuba seem to all be mid drive, which I believe is the ideal option

Decathlon and Radwagon are both rear motor, which is less good but still probably fine for most people

So I'm going to arbitrarily say that €3k is the changeover point from rear motor to mid motor

This is from my position on the sofa, having not cycled for years and never having cycled an E-bike, so feel free to disregard it 😂

It would be nice if there was an exception to the 250W limit for an electric cargo bike, in light of the fact that they're generally carrying more and have more potential for replacing a car journey

Peterx · 19-07-2023 3:57pm

yes. dance mode is a concern but so far the 2 boys have been good in it.

Peterx · 19-07-2023 7:49pm

The Multitinker, Fetch and GSD are all using a Bosch middrive motor. 250W with 85Nm of oomph. It's loads, however the 500Wh battery might give some folk range anxiety - not for me, it's for short local trips to shops or kid activities. In auto mode it floats up the steepish hill beside me carrying about 46kg of child on the longtail and about 76kg of me in the middle. The tour mode under auto is grand on the flat.

Initially I thought I wanted belt drive as it would reduce any maintenance but the lad who owned the Decathlon bike had done 1837km with zero maintenance and his chain was grand. My worry was that very 250W and 85Nm of ooomph would destroy chains quickly

magicbastarder · 19-07-2023 8:52pm

I think hub motors don't suffer from chain wear as much as mid drive ones would?

the_amazing_raisin · 23-07-2023 8:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120871317#Comment_120871317

Mind if I ask how old they are? I'm debating whether to put my 3yo (will be 4yo by the time I get the bike) in a proper seat or whether she'll sit on the pad

I'd take it slow on a few test runs to see how she does, if she can't sit securely then I'll probably get a Thule Yepp or something similar

the_amazing_raisin · 23-07-2023 9:03am

I'm leaning towards the Yuba Kombi E5, need to go and try it out but here's my reasoning:

-It's around €500 cheaper than the Decathlon bike when I get the bike 2 work grant

-It's probably the cheapest mid motor out there

-Seems to be decently available

I'd say my biggest concern at the moment is any proprietary parts on the bike. After seeing what's happening with VanMoof owners I'd like to be sure I'm not tied to the manufacturer for parts

The drivetrain, battery and brakes are made by Shimano so they should be reasonably well available. Tyres don't seem to be some rare special made ones like Radwagon so that's a plus too

Will try to test one out in the next few weeks and see how it goes

crisco10 · 28-07-2023 12:35pm

On a similar research journey myself, and the Yuba does seem like a fairly solid middle ground between the "cheap" bikes and more expensive ones.

The main difference I see is the specs of the battery (418Wh) and the torque of the motor (40Nm)....the Riese Muller, Trek Fetch have 500Wh+ and 85Nm torque.

I don't care about the 20% smaller battery, but curious does anyone have experience of the 40Nm motor on a hill, with 2 kids? Not a mountain, but for those familiar, it's the drag from Dundrum to Stepaside along the Sandyford Road and up to Lambs cross... .

Peterx · 29-07-2023 10:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120885393#Comment_120885393

I think a 4 year old would be grown out of the dedicated moulded child seat and as any of the attachments are very expensive I'd be going straight to the seat pad and cage set up. My boys are 5 and 8 and so I have the concern at the other end of the age scale - when will the 8 year old be either too big or too embarrassed to be on a longtail cargobike.

Crisco10 - The 85Nm of torque is frankfully fantastic, you can really feel it doing all the work. The 40Nm motor would get you up that Lambs Cross section. You would have to presume it would just be a bit slower and maybe take more effort on your behalf - but it's much cheaper then any carbobike with the Bosch Cargoline motor.

the_amazing_raisin · 29-07-2023 11:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120911309#Comment_120911309

Yeah I'd say at most I'll get 6 months out of a child seat, and the 4yo will probably be old enough for the seat pad. I'll probably get some mirrors so I can keep an eye on them

I gave the Decathlon bike a go yesterday around their cycle track with the 6yo on the back seat

It's definitely a bit of a heavy beast with someone on the back, just need to be careful how I manage them getting on and off

I found the boost from the bike to be quite powerful even on the lowest setting. The test track is completely flat, so I imagine the boost will be needed on hills

Probably the trickiest part was low speed turns around sharp corners. The longer wheelbase means it needs a bit more space and the weight on the back meant I felt a bit unbalanced and ended up walking the bike around the corners

Also the fixed front basket on the Decathlon bike makes it really tricky to figure out the steering somehow. I think my brain is expecting the basket to turn and gets muddled when it points straight ahead

I'd say with some adjustments and practice I'd be grand though

the_amazing_raisin · 07-08-2023 2:30pm

I tried out the Yuba Kombi E5 today, the nice folks at 360 Cycles in Clontarf let me take it for a spin

I was able to take it up the cycle way on the coast road then uphill via Watermill Road, through a bit of St Anne's Park and back to the shop

First impressions of the bike are very good, I was having so much fun I almost didn't want to bring it back 😂

I wasn't able to bring the kids on it because they just had a stock bike without the rear seats. I'm pretty confident the bike would handle two kids easily enough though, I wasn't exactly going up Howth hill but it was a breeze up Watermill Road on the highest assistance setting so it should be fine

The drivetrain felt a bit more natural than the Decathlon bike. Rather than being boosted forward at low speed it was more like I was just cycling a lighter bike. It's still a bit of a beast to be maneuvering around corners but it managed some winding paths through St Anne's Park without trouble. It'd probably be a bit more unstable with two kids onboard so will definitely need to practice on safe roads

While the Yuba is definitely the better bike, I'm not convinced it's €1500 better when soecced with the same accessories as the Decathlon. But I guess that's bike economics, and I'll be going with the Yuba since I can't get the Decathlon through bike to work scheme

They also have the bigger brother, the Spicy Curry, in the shop as well (who comes up with these names 🙄). It's definitely a more robust bike and I'd say if you have two slightly older kids who are going to be on the bike a fair bit then it'd be the one you want

I cannot justify the over €5k starting price however, you'd want to be selling your car for that to make economic sense. I think the reality is that a lot of these bikes are replacing car journeys but aren't replacing the cats themselves

Peterx · 07-08-2023 6:26pm

The price tag on all these machines does seem quite spicy, perhaps that's why the name came from. It's almost as if the bike to work scheme is priced in...

I would think that the vast majority of people buying these bikes are using b2k to reduce the cost. It's hardly a coincidence that the Decathlon one costs exactly the amount of the bike to work scheme.

the_amazing_raisin · 07-08-2023 6:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120949916#Comment_120949916

Agree, although you'll struggle to find more than a few hundred off in another country, so either they all have equivalent schemes or that's fairly close to the real selling price of the bikes

I suspect that the non standard frames combined with a relatively niche market mean there isn't huge economy of scale, so they'll never be equivalent to "normal" bikes

Interestingly, Yuba frames are built in China and the bike is assembled in the US. I know a lot of E-bike manufacturers are trying to get some fan credit by manufacturing in the EU or US.

I know Decathlon manufacture their bikes in China but they've openly admitted they'll never be able to build bikes at the same price point in the EU

I don't mind the bike being built in China so much but it is slightly frustrating that it's almost circumnavigated the globe by the time it arrives here, with a hefty carbon footprint attached

CantGetNoSleep · 07-08-2023 7:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120949916#Comment_120949916

I recently saw a Cube Cargo front loader (Bosch cargoline motor, internal hub gears) for 3792€ on Alltricks. Might have been selling off old stock but good to see the prices appear to go in the right direction, particularly for a reputable brand with good components.

On the other hand I wouldn't buy one of these online yet as I can't imagine it being too easy to find somewhere to work on it

the_amazing_raisin · 07-08-2023 8:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950126#Comment_120950126

Yeah I was considering a Radwagon but since Radpower are leaving Europe that's canned that idea

Between that and VanMoof I've been put off bikes that I can't just go to a shop and get parts

To some extent it's hard to avoid proprietary parts with something like a cargo bike, but at least if all the running gear and tyres are fairly standard then it's better than nothing

paddyb · 11-08-2023 3:24pm

Considering the same as you for a cargo bike. The only difference is that I think I can get the decathlon bike on our bike to work - given the savings on that its seems hard to justify the price difference to other brands. Saw a few youtube reviews but have not found a huge amount about them online in particular around the battery life

the_amazing_raisin · 11-08-2023 5:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965843#Comment_120965843

I'd say if you can get the Decathlon bike on the bike to work scheme then go for it, it'll likely fit within the salary deductions even with accessories

Only reason I'm getting the Yuba is the bike to work scheme. It's something like €2,400 for the fully specced Yuba on the scheme, versus €2,900 for the Decathlon without the scheme

I was considering the Yuba Spicy Curry but even with the bike to work it's more expensive than the Decathlon bike, so I guess it's the Kombi all the way for me

the_amazing_raisin · 17-08-2023 12:40pm

I might have found another bike to consider from a brand called Sona

https://sonabikes.com/collections/utility-and-cargo-bikes/products/sona-shuttle-passengerjr-electric-cargo-bike

I've never heard of them, they seem to be a Dublin based crowd

I'll need to look a bit more into them but here's my initial thoughts:

Pros

-Available through the Bike to Work website (HubEx) so suitable for me

-Under €3k so fits into the allowance for cargo bikes

-Comes with all the accessories I want as standard

-Irish bike shop, seems the majority of the bikes are assembled here

-Bigger battery than the Yuba and it's integrated to the frame so looks nicer

-Seems to use fairly standard parts (it's no VanMoof for example)

Cons

-Rear hub motor, not as effective as a mid motor

-Buying online, so not much chance to try out before I buy

-Limited payload of 150kg compared to 200kg for the Yuba

-Irish bike shop and unknown brand, what happens if they go wallop?

EDIT: Looks like they're based out of Cycleways in Dublin, I've booked a test ride and they'll even give me a bike with the kids seats attached so I can try it out with some passengers. Will report back with my findings

fits · 17-08-2023 12:50pm

Is that payload bike plus rider plus children? 150 kg isn’t a lot.

the_amazing_raisin · 17-08-2023 3:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990202#Comment_120990202

Yeah, particularly with my ample 100kg backside on it 😕

We'll see how it goes, at least with the bike I might finally lose some weight

fits · 17-08-2023 5:18pm

Doesn’t give much leeway for more than one kid. My two are 42 kg combined now.

I recently bought an ebike with 140 kg payload so was adding it all up recently. It’s not a cargo bike though. Bike itself is 28kg.

the_amazing_raisin · 17-08-2023 6:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120991676#Comment_120991676

Just checked my two and they're 40kg between them, 7yo is 23kg

It isn't a whole lot of room for growth, although I'd be hoping the older one will be cycling by himself a lot

I assume the weight limit includes the accessories, so they'll need to be taken into account as well

smackyB · 29-08-2023 2:22pm

I'm about to take receipt of a long-tail cargo bike from Decathlon and given I have never had a bike of this value before I'm a little worried about it getting nicked! Has anyone here used Bikmo.ie to insure theirs? Any other providers that could be recommended?

the_amazing_raisin · 29-08-2023 3:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042535#Comment_121042535

First off, check if it's covered under your home insurance, a lot of them consider bikes as contents even if they're out of the house. You'll need to declare it given its value

https://www.aviva.ie/insurance/home-insurance/optional-cover/

Second, get yourself two highly rated bike locks. Don't worry about how long it takes lockpicking lawyer to get through them, thieves rarely pick the lock and just cut through the bolt

Get locks that have a lot of strength and when out and about, attach the bike to something solid at both the front and back, through the frame and wheels if possible. This makes it hard to use the bike itself as leverage to break the locks

Take the battery out every time as well as any panniers or anything else to make the bike look less valuable.

Try to lock up your bike in areas with a lot of foot traffic to minimise the amount of time any thieves can try to cut the locks without being spotted (although it's a bit debatable if any of them care about stealth)

There's also tracking systems you can get for a bike, given the value it might not be a bad investment

Lastly, and being a bit mercenary about it, try to lock up next to a less secure bike so thieves will target that one instead. They're generally looking for the quick grab rather than targeting particular bikes

knockoutned · 31-08-2023 1:23pm

Sorry OP for derailing the thread slightly, but I am also interested in getting a cargo bike and have only started looking into what is available. From reading the thread, is the max price that you can spend on the cargo bike using the bike to work scheme €3,000 and you’re not allowed to top up on that. Is that correct? Seems to really reduce the options on an electric bike.

fits · 31-08-2023 1:25pm

You can top it up.

Long tail electric cargo bike recommendations?

Comments