Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

fitz · 01-09-2023 7:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057602#Comment_121057602

Nah, I don't think so. There's been plenty of comments saying Crowley is definitely ahead of Byrne, but tbh, I think that's all based on an optimistic belief that he'll live up to his potential based on a few good performances, rather than a consistent body of evidence.

aloooof · 01-09-2023 7:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057602#Comment_121057602

I daresay this is exactly what could be happening. Like this post....

I think Crowley will be number 1 outhalf by the Scotland game.

...was later misinterpreted by one poster as Sexton being dropped for Crowley. Which is not what was said. In the same post the OP explained it was cos he thought Sexton would be injured by then.

aloooof · 01-09-2023 8:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057584#Comment_121057584

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057585#Comment_121057585

My point is, if you're counting a couple of posters going overboard as a "hype train in overdrive" then every player has been on that train at some stage.

The vast majority are being pretty reasonable.

Nigzcurran · 01-09-2023 8:09pm

Maybe ban all discussion regarding the number 10 shirt and we can all be friends again! I wonder what this place would be like if all our 10s played for the same province? Probably find a different position to get our knickers in a twist over...

aloooof · 01-09-2023 8:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057625#Comment_121057625

And people are entitled to that view, based on what they've seen of him.

For example, I distinctly remember posting on here 2 years ago that I thought Crowley would be the Munster starting 10 in the medium term. Yes Crowley's is a smaller sample size (it always is with younger players) but I think I've seen enough of both him and Byrne to have a reasonably well informed opinion of who I would favour.

Neil3030 · 01-09-2023 8:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057731#Comment_121057731

With as near as I'll ever be to 100% certainty, that is PRECISELY what would happen.

Foxtrol · 01-09-2023 8:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057518#Comment_121057518

That's why I won't play their game when they've repeatedly asked me to go back months to provide examples.

They'll never be satisfied so it would just be a complete waste of time.

Dubinusa · 01-09-2023 8:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057584#Comment_121057584

What is this good faith? Seriously, it's a piss and moan forum. There's no co nsensus, there's toads hopping in and out derailing the threads. Many sides to the same coin. The provincialism is utterly mad. The hyperbole is fun, though. Being honest, I chuck the odd grenade my own self.

phog · 01-09-2023 8:25pm

I suppose the poor search function here is a handy cop out for those that want to claim X number of fans said this or that and nothing to back it up

Dubinusa · 01-09-2023 8:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057747#Comment_121057747

In your defense, his competition was Healy! Both lads could have had big positive impacts for Muster. Carberry just isn't a good out half. Though, now that he's been dropped maybe he clicks?

Foxtrol · 01-09-2023 8:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057747#Comment_121057747

It is a far bigger issue than a small sample size, Crowley has never started at 10 against a top tier club or international side.

stephen_n · 01-09-2023 8:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057718#Comment_121057718

Well in fairness it’s not just a few. Some of your own posts would make you think that Crowley won the URC single handedly and RB lost the HC by himself. There is not much balance in the debate in the lash few days. The reality is, neither Crowley or RB have set the world alight in green.

aloooof · 01-09-2023 8:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057790#Comment_121057790

... and I'd still have him ahead of Byrne.

Interested Observer · 01-09-2023 8:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057768#Comment_121057768

I'm just not going to engage anymore until they up the quality of their posts.

phog · 01-09-2023 8:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057805#Comment_121057805

Me too

Is that classified as a hype 🚂

Foxtrol · 01-09-2023 8:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057805#Comment_121057805

Which is an opinion you're entitled to once we accept the fact that how he would perform at 10 against a top tier side is pure projection.

I personally don't think he is ready - wish Munster had given him opportunities to stick there sooner.

I'd be fine to throw him on if we're trailing as a hail mary but in a tight game against a top tier side his strength could/would be very quickly turned into a weakness.

aloooof · 01-09-2023 8:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057799#Comment_121057799

Some of your own posts would make you think that Crowley won the URC single handedly and RB lost the HC by himself.

This is simply not true, stephen. It's just not. (And I think that's being kind tbh). I've literally been careful to say things like the following:

To be clear, I'm not saying that run of form was entirely down to Crowley. But I'm also not surprised it happend when Crowley was given a good run at 10.

And this:

I’d agreed the run-in doesn’t tell everything about those 2 players. But it doesn’t tell us nothing, either.

And the following:

The argument for Crowley to be ahead of RB is a perfectly credible one.

Yep, there's a credible argument for RB too.

In what way is that not balanced? I think you're way off on this one.

But ya, if you're categorising posts like that as part of the hype train, then ya, I could see why you think there's a hype train...

AbusesToilets · 01-09-2023 8:41pm

Be interesting long term to see who takes the top spot for Ireland. I'm curious what impact Nienbarr will have on Leinster's style. The complexity of the game plan under Lancaster gave a big advantage to Leinster's players relative to their peers, which has definitely stood to Bryne imo.

aloooof · 01-09-2023 8:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057840#Comment_121057840

in a tight game against a top tier side his strength could/would be very quickly turned into a weakness.

Could or would? That sounds very much like pure projection. Right?

phog · 01-09-2023 8:48pm

What has stood to Byrne is Farrell tried the rest and they dropped like flies, he was left with Bryne and a rookie.

It was almost like the last two lads standing around waiting to be picked for a 5 aside kick around in a local park.

Timing is everything here for Byrne, a few games too early for Crowley to pass him for Ireland and a season too early for whoever in Leinster is going to keep him as their no 2

gameoverdude · 01-09-2023 8:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057864#Comment_121057864

Bit naughty there. That sounds close to playing the man. Right?

I like Crowley. Think he's the real deal and this WC could/should kick start a long career with at least Munster and hopefully Ireland barring injuries. I can't see who's in his way at Munster, unless they sign madigan.

I'd have more confidence in Byrne starting at 10 if sexton was out, but again, as people have mentioned, it's close and may depend on the opponent.

Anyways Prendergast.

aloooof · 01-09-2023 8:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057905#Comment_121057905

Nope. It''s playing the man's exact argument back at him. This did give me a chuckle tho, in amongst all the spikiness.

I can't see who's in his way at Munster, unless they sign madigan.

01-09-2023 8:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057499#Comment_121057499

When Crowley has a run of significant wins under his belt he'll likely get a lot more benefit of the doubt from supporters around his play style. At the moment he's still an unknown entity from an Ireland point of view who's delivered some impressive moments but also some sloppiness. I would hold Park to a far higher standard generally, but I'd also be more forgiving if he tried something and didn't pull it off. I think comparing peoples reactions to a proven test player and a novice is a bit reductive tbh - don't see the point.

Either way - it's not impulsiveness or risk taking from what I can see that people are concerned about, it's his ability to fully utilise the players around him. Leinster players got very excited about Madigan, he was fast and had a step, good defensively, good kicking and generally a physical player who rarely got injured. But he couldn't manage a game and direct a team and when he left Leinster he started to look very ordinary.

gameoverdude · 01-09-2023 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057911#Comment_121057911

Thought you'd appreciate that.

I think we're all getting a bit spikey with no rugby and waiting for the first match). Its getting sometimes a bit off.

I think most posters will be roaring on anyone who takes the field in green.

Onto more important things. I'm on my honeymoon next week. Anyone know a decent pub in NYC to watch the first match. Preferably one not called Crowley or Byrne? Cheers.

Neil3030 · 01-09-2023 9:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057918#Comment_121057918

I think that's fair. Both your point and mine could even fall under a general theme of "decision making", which few should dispute he needs to improve on. But among other things, that takes reps with the system. And it looks like the coaches are trying to work with Crowley by giving him most minutes in the warm-ups. Safe enough to conclude they see an upside.

Foxtrol · 01-09-2023 9:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057864#Comment_121057864

Is that an attempt at some kind of 'gotcha'?

Of course, I never said it was only the positive view of him that is pure projection. It is the nature of untested players at the highest level.

I have the same number of games as Crowley starting at 10 against top tier club or international sides.

It takes incredible optimism/faith to believe a significant step up in competition for Crowley wont have an impact, especially as the margins where both his strengths and weaknesses are tighten so much in that next level and are punished far more severely.

01-09-2023 9:14pm

NO

HYPERBOLE

AT

ALL

All in the first 15 minutes of the Samoa Game.

Didn't need search - I remember them from the thread as I was thinking all they were doing was setting a young player up for a big fall by putting him on a pedestal. I've opted not to oust posters, but these aren't even the most over the top.

Right now - I've no reason to believe that Crowley will turn out to be a world beater and we've all seen great hopes not deliver. I mentioned Madigan above - that's honestly roughly where Crowley is for me right now based on what I've seen so far. I'm an Ireland supporter first - if Crowley turns out to be absolutely World Class I'd be f**king delighted - but I'm not going to lose all perspective about the kid because RED OVER BLUE.

Between this and the pages and pages of complaining about selections this place has become a complete disaster. There is a section of posters that have frankly lost perspective and are high-jacking every discussion to air grievances. Killing the place.