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Shooting of Ta'Kiya Young

  • 01-09-2023 9:38pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭hawley


    Another senseless shooting that led to a young black woman being killed, along with her unborn child. Two surviving children left without a mother. Going by the bodycam footage, she looks terrified. Nobody deserves to lose their life over such a trivial incident.


    Post edited by Beasty on


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,733 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Post edited by osarusan on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 185 ✭✭CrazyEric


    It is usually someone who disobeys a legitimate Law enforcement request, Stay in the Vehicle, Show me your hands, Stop etc. George Floyd was an exception.

    I was stopped one time while driving in the US. Followed a friends advice. Before the officer approached from behind my left shoulder I rolled down the window and I put my hands on top of the steering wheel, fingers spread. This helps the officer relax because he /she now knows I don't have a gun pointed through the door at him. It is a very simple thing to do, anything to deescalate the situation. When he asked for my license I said " it is in my wallet in my back right pocket, may I reach back for it?" It can be that simple.

    Windows up, scream at the officer and attempt to drive across them usually has bad results.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    This isn't a mass shooting,

    It's a single shooting of an unarmed pregnant woman and her unborn child by white cops



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 185 ✭✭CrazyEric


    What has the color of the cops got to do with it?? That is Racism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,951 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Shooting a shoplifter seems over the top, shooting someone who drives a car at a police officer seems reasonable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,951 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,538 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    No, the racism is on the part of the American police when they regularly gun down black people like this.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,951 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Or, it's the shooting of a suspect that drove their car at police.

    Colour of anyone's skin is not important



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    What part of shooting an unarmed pregnant woman is anywhere reasonable for crying out loud



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,951 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    I never said shooting an unarmed pregnant woman was reasonable.

    I said shooting someone who is driving a car towards a police officer seems reasonable.

    A car is a deadly weapon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    So is a cop with a 9mm pistol.

    There was zero justification for shooting of this pregnant woman.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,951 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Really?

    So if your standing in front of a car, and someone drives it straight towards you, you don't think that it is justified to stop the threat?

    This would happen in Ireland if someone drive a car at an armed police officer. They stopped the threat.

    perhaps she could have got out of the vehicle and spoke with police officers? Pretty sure it could have been avoided. Drive a car at an armed police officer, expect to be stopped.

    I'm not saying it isn't a terrible incident, it really is, but it could have been avoided very easily



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Presumably the cop didn't follow procedure by standing in front of the car in this situation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Yeah really,

    The cop put himself in the situation to shoot,he was in zero danger,he went looking for a kill and he got two .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,951 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    I know you're all about cops in America being racist etc etc but sometimes it's nothing to do with that. Sometimes it is.

    In a split second decision, when someone is driving a lethal weapon at you, you do what you can to stop the threat. That's policing.

    The moral is, when police are questioning you, don't drive a car at them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 185 ✭✭CrazyEric



    2 Simple questions.

    If she obeyed the legal request by the other officer to open the door/window would the outcome have been different?

    If she didn't illegally drive her vehicle at an armed police officer carrying out his duty would the outcome have been different?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭UsBus


    All of these incidents have an escalation leading to a reaction. Cop asked her to stop and get out of the car. She decides no, I'll drive at them to take off. The cause is evident for all to see in most of these incidents. The narrative is always framed around the heavy handed cops going over the top, most interactions could be easily diffused by following direction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Just curious about the procedure here. Does shooting a driver make them hit the brakes and stop the vehicle? If true, I didn't know this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,453 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    They regularly gun down white and Hispanic people too. If a person of any race refuses to exit their vehicle and then drives a car at a police officer, they're more than likely getting shot.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    I assume there's a procedures in these situations that doesn't involve standing in front of car and driver



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Yeah. I was wondering about that. It seems a bit daft to put one's self in front of a moving vehicle. I've seen it in movies and it looks cool and all but it seems like a bonkers thing to do n real life. It has strong "He's coming right for us!" vibes.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    It usually gets them to ease off the accelerator at least.

    I agree I don't know why he would have put himself in front, it seems like a silly thing to do. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. But that doesn't make the final interaction any different: why he's in front of the car is irrelevant to there being someone in front of her and her driving. Be it a cop or not.

    De Santis was in the news yesterday for observing that anyone who considers looting in an area such as he was in was at risk of more than just the justice system. He observed that people in the area tended to be the sort who own guns and shoot, which they are perfectly allowed to do. Was reported in some circles as his irresponsibly encouraging shootings.

    I don't know, don't break into places? Don't drive at cops? A lot of these "excessive responses" tend to be victim initiated



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,898 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    SHe wasn't driving towards him at 80mph, she actually turned the wheel, as to slowly move away from the standing cop, either way death was too far a step to take, cop had a choice, take a step out of the way, or kill her, he killed her, doesn't seem like a good choice, as car kept moving, and he then stepped out of the way/



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Serena Pitiful Ultrasound


    New York Times piece from 2021.

    A Times investigation into a common defense for shooting motorists found that some officers had put themselves in danger. Others appeared to face no peril at all.


    ...


    In about 250 of the 400 seemingly avoidable deaths, The Times found that police officers had fired into vehicles that they later claimed posed such a threat. Relative to the population, Black motorists were overrepresented among those killed.


    Like Mr. Mifflin, the other drivers had been pursued for nonviolent offenses, many of them minor. A seatbelt ticket in Phenix City that would have cost $41. A cracked taillight in Georgia, a broken headlight in Colorado, an expired registration tag in Texas. Most motorists were killed while attempting to flee.


    The country’s largest cities, from New York to Los Angeles, have barred officers from shooting at moving vehicles. The U.S. Justice Department has warned against the practice for decades, pressuring police departments to forbid it. Police academies don’t even train recruits how to fire at a car. The risk of injuring innocent people is considered too great; the idea of stopping a car with a bullet is viewed as wishful thinking.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,898 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    If someone doesn't follow direction, then they drive off, it doesn't give you the right to murder them, you simply take their reg, or follow them in police car, pick them up later. What is the issue, happens daily here, people driving off from police, they simply follow them, not murder them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    She absolutely should not have tried to accelerate when there was someone in front of the car but killing her seems excessive when getting out of the way would have removed the officer from danger without the loss of life. I would consider the acceleration to be attempted murder, given the person in front of the car, but there were other possible outcomes to this situation - eg getting out of the way. It seems a bit excessive to kill someone fleeing when we live in an age of licence plates and cameras.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Does jumping in front of a moving car seem reasonable???



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Depending on the police department this is *how they are trained to “de”escalate*




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,453 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    He didnt jump in front of a moving car though? He was standing in front of a stationary car that was then rolled towards him. I mean he probably shouldn't have been standing in front of it but who thinks driving towards a police officer like that is in any way reasonable and not going to escalate things to your detriment?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It seems a bit excessive to kill someone fleeing when we live in an age of licence plates and cameras.

    She tried to kill the police officer by accelerating toward him.

    The force continuum justifies the use of lethal force in such a situation.

    She was a criminal who shoplifted from the local store. The situation was put upon herself. She didn't comply with officer requests when asked, and applied force toward an officer which he felt could have killed him if not stopped.

    Is it an unfortunate situation given the unborn child? Yes.

    But she should never have put herself in danger to begin with, and that began the moment she decided to steal goods from the local store.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭Beefcake82


    Some people on various sites have said this woman did not have the items she was accused of stealing. Some have commented that she was turning her car away from the cop. Some say this was a racially motivated shooting and the woman was murdered. However there are a number of facts in that seem to be ignored in all of this.

    1. The cops gave a lawful order for wanting the woman out of the car, it was to carry out their investigation into weather she actually left the shop with the items she was accused on taking. At this point the cops had no way to know or not if the items were left in the store as some claim.
    2. The woman then drove her car at the cop that was on her front bumper to stop her fleeing the scene, he and colleague opened fire on her when the cop was assaulted with the car, a car that can be a deadly weapon in any ones hands. They opened fire based on this and first cop being on the bonnet of the car.
    3. If as some say the woman should have been allowed to drive off due to her fearing for her safety, then instead of containing the situation they may have had a dangerous high speed chase to deal with where more innocent bystanders could have been injured or killed. Again another reason for the cop to stand his ground on front of the car and eventually opening fire on her.
    4. Her skin color or her being pregnant has nothing to do with the fact she committed assault on a cop, targeting of the wheels as some have suggested is nonsense as you can in turn make that dangerous weapon (car) more dangerous by being uncontrollable from shooting our tyres and increasing the odds she could crash.

    At the end of the day this woman fucked up, badly and the consequence was her life is forfeit for her actions, some may say that is callous to say, however what about the cop that could have been injured or killed, what about his family? Or innocent bystanders families that could have been affected if she got into a high speed get away?

    Also anyone that compares this to George Floyd situation needs their heads examined.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 698 ✭✭✭TedBundysDriver


    Should have just acted like a decent human being.

    Amnesty International’s new investigation shows that Israel imposes a system of oppression and domination against Palestinians across all areas under its control: in Israel and the OPT, and against Palestinian refugees, in order to benefit Jewish Israelis. This amounts to apartheid as prohibited in international law.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,089 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Race, death, America - ideal for boards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,453 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    You live in the US, chances are you've been pulled over at some point? I have, once. I complied with what he said and didn't try to run him over, got my speeding ticket and went on my way. I'm sure you did the same if it ever happened to you. I can only surmise she wasn't in her right mind to do what she did, but you know full well the same would happen to anyone driving towards an officer like that, regardless of their race



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,364 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    To be fair you aren't black.

    Complying with police officers when you are still does not guarantee you won't be shot or beaten to death. How many examples do you want?

    Anyway, sounds like you broke an actual law by speeding, she didn't steal anything from the shop. So no law was broken, Police did not need to be there.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    she didn't steal anything from the shop

    This is largely irrelevant (though is there any evidence that she didn't steal anything?).

    Law enforcement routinely have to investigate / question people who may be innocent of wrongdoing.

    It doesn't grant that person the authority to refuse to comply with law enforcement, nor attempts to run them over with vehicles.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No, statistics matter more than slogans.

    Here is the number of people shot to death by the police in the United States from 2017 to 2023, by race:

    Not everything has to be framed from the perspective of "racist police".



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 52,406 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 353 ✭✭RurtBeynolds


    Quick let's kill her just in case she makes us chase after her and kill some bystanders in the process. There is literally no other option.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭Beefcake82


    I like how you conveniently use the plot of get away without addressing the fact she assaulted the cop with a car. 🙄


    Also do explain the other options as i have already debunked why shooting wheels isnt as effective as people think.

    Post edited by Beefcake82 on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You are speaking after the fact. That's a very easy thing to do.

    Officers have to react in split seconds to decide the optimum course of action in a potentially life-threatening situation -- especially for the officer who was assaulted with the vehicle. He could have been killed. Bystanders could have been killed, too.

    Ultimately, the glidepath to de-escalation was actively avoided by the driver. She could have simply complied with the officer's request; establishing her innocence, allowing her to go on her way. She chose violence, and violence was meted out in response.

    When she chose her action, she chose the consequences of her action at the same time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,364 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Additionally, the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 5.8 fatal shootings per million of the population per year between 2015 and May 2023.

    Why didn't you quote that bit from your link? Far more pertinent to the actual discussion most reasonable people would think.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 702 ✭✭✭Fuascailteoir


    And the role of the police in resolving the situation without having to kill an unarmed woman? There is a strong pattern in a lot of these incidents. Even in cases where police have been found to use racial slurs before killing someone, they have not been sanctioned. Surely anyone can see that is abhorrent



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We have to accept the obvious reality that some demographics can be associated with a higher incidence of crime than other demographics.

    It's an uncomfortable reality. We can ignore it or pretend it doesn't exist, but that gets us nowhere. Asian-Americans are 7% of the US population but comprise 14% of its scientists and engineers. We cannot undo statistics that involve over-representation.

    If black people are over-represented, and if officers need to deploy lethal force, then the skin colour of the person -- at that time -- is irrelevant. Lethal force may very well be justified in almost all cases, as indeed it is in this case.

    Are there a minority of cases where officers kill on racial grounds? I wouldn't deny it, but we cannot have this silly broad-brush approach that groups all law enforcement together under the label of racism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 702 ✭✭✭Fuascailteoir


    Of course they are over represented in the criminal justice system as that has been by design



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    But in this case an unarmed pregnant woman committed no crime and was executed by a cop who had Zero evidence she committed any crime ,



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If you drove a vehicle toward a police officer in the United States and hit them in the process, that is absolutely a crime -- in fact, it's a much worse crime than shoplifting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,610 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    I don't think any of 'cause celebre' videos of shootings of black people by US police involving genuinely cooperating suspects - Saint George Floyd included. Perhaps if they weren't committing crimes and just did what they were asked they wouldn't end up dead.

    This video is the only one I've seen (not that I'm a connoisseur of this type of material) which genuinely shocked me - cop walked free but, hey, noone cares because the dead guy was white:

    https://youtu.be/VBUUx0jUKxc



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