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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans in OP**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,811 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    So you're relying on an anecdote where it wasn't even confirmed to be her? And a tall man in a jumper? So no, that's not an indication that Bailey was in her car. At best it's an indication that a man was in a car with a woman that may or may not have been her. These theories are reaching further and further.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I think the owner was asked but refused to say if it was or wasn't him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,158 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Typical of this case. Schrodingers car passenger. More information hints without confirming anything.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,563 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    I read this post and for some reason this illustration came to mind....



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    In the case of Schroedinger, it's about whatever is inside is either in the state of being dead or alive, and it's about not knowing and both states can exist as long as the car doors remain closed.......

    This is how I would interpret it, if it's about Schroedinger's cat......

    😀



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  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭Ms Robini


    Shrödinger's Cat, as a thought experiment, states that if you seal a cat in a box with something that can eventually kill it, you won't know if the cat is alive or dead until you open the box. So, until you open the box and observe the cat, the cat is simultaneously dead and alive… And here you are saying that where the sightings of a person in the car with Sophie on 20 December 1996 are confirmed, we can take it that the person in the car was capable of killing her and so if that was the person that killed her, on that day - which was just over two days before she died - Sophie was simultaneously (metaphorically?) dead and alive in that car.

    What a strange almost poetic slant you can take of things sometimes, Tinytobe



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    This is the problem. You are assigning value to information like this when it's absolutely useless. Bailey wasn't identified as being with Sophie that day. It could have been Bailey or it could have been any number of other people.

    I don't understand why you think building up 'non evidence' such as stuff like this strengthens the case. It does not.

    Your thinking appears to be along the lines of the Gardai in Cork in the 90's? Pick a suspect and try make 'non evidence' fit.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    So according to a witness (who recollected it some years after her death), Sophie had allegedly expressed concern about some wannabe writer called Eoin yet according to some here they reckon that despite the vague description by the petrol guy, Sophie gave Bailey a lift to Skibbereen (a long enough drive back then on a winters day)?



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,158 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Yep, there's inconsistencies in the evidence cited against Bailey, even from those supposedly which incriminate him. That evidence is also inconsistent with evidence that exonerates him, as the DPP listed.

    If you list all the things Bailey is supposed to have done in the 36-48 hours leading up to the murder, it is quite staggering. James Bond stamina stuff.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭Ms Robini


    I don’t know that 007 would have spent the Saturday night/Sunday morning out drinking and then staying at Patricia Murphy’s house with Mark Murphy, Tony Doran and Robert Shelley.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,158 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Yes and no.

    An all nighter drinking session, sleeping wherever he lays his hat... then missions (turkeys, xmas tree).

    Out again drinking from 9pm to after midnight.

    Then supposedly up in the night for a 'mission' involving a near 2 hour round trip walk.

    Bond might have classier surroundings, choice of cocktails, entertainment but my point about the stamina required remains.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,158 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I think this was referenced way back on the thread, I stumbled on it via google, so can't vouch for the source (CrimeGuy.com).

    PDF timeline of information about the case, runs to 9 pages.

    I have saved a local PDF copy so if this link stops working, DM me and I will attach to thread.

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/6LO3XX7RV5W3/519310568-sophie-toscan-du-plantier-timeline.pdf

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    The stop in Ballydehob is missing from that timeline. That makes the Skib stop improbable. Plus wrong colour car, hubcaps missing, attendant wouldn’t verify it was Bailey.

    just more nonsense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I asked chat GPT to look at the circumstances of the murder as Sherlock Holmes..

    "write a paragraph in the style of Sherlock Holmes about the murder of a woman living on her own late at night and no obvious clues except a discarded wine bottle with no prints."


    ChatGPT

    On the chilling evening of the 23rd of December, I found myself in the somber garden of Mrs. X. The moon, obscured by a tapestry of ominous clouds, barely cast its pale light upon the tragic scene before me. There, amidst the desolation of winter, lay the lifeless body of the solitary woman, her existence cruelly extinguished by some malevolent force. A discarded wine bottle, its contents untouched, lay half a mile from the garden, a sinister piece of the puzzle, like a raven's omen.

    As I knelt by the lifeless form, a sense of dread and determination washed over me. The method of the crime, a gruesome block employed to crush her head, was a macabre signature of a vile mind. The sheer violence of the act suggested a motive beyond mere robbery, a deeper vendetta or a hidden truth that had emerged in the dying moments of poor Mrs. X. The bottle, still intact, whispered of clandestine meetings, secrets exchanged under the veil of night.

    The absence of fingerprints on the bottle, found so far from the scene, was a chilling clue. It bespoke a meticulous and methodical perpetrator, one who understood the significance of erasing all traces. How did this bottle, a potential instrument in the deadly act, manage to escape the brutality that befell its owner? The enigma was complex, a labyrinth of darkness and shadows, yet I was determined to unravel its mysteries.

    The winds carried echoes of the past, and as I studied the wine bottle, I knew that it held a pivotal role in deciphering this intricate puzzle. The garden, the untouched bottle, the grim date of the crime—the strands of this mystery were interconnected, waiting for my mind to weave them together. The game was unmistakably afoot, and, with the invaluable companionship of my dear Watson, I vowed to chase the truth, no matter how labyrinthine the path, guided by the unwavering torch of reason and the keen light of deduction.'


    Looks like Holmes is a s puzzled as everyone else..



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Recently convicted Noel Long also was a person of interest in the 1996 murder of Sophie Toscan Du Plantier at her home in West Cork. However, as the French woman was not sexually assualted he was ruled out.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    For what reason had he been considered a person of interest given that he lived a decent drive away from Goleen?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I don't know. I guess he had a record and came up under a search for possible offenders.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    There was a report of a blue car seen speeding in the area around 07:30 on the morning Sophie Toscan Duplantier was found murdered.

    Noel Long was driving a metallic blue car when he murdered Nora Sheehan. He is also linked to a string of other attacks.

    There's nothing placing him near the scene of Sophie's murder but it's easy to see why he would have been on the radar.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    If it was the same car it would be at least 15 years old in 1996. Would Irish cars of that age have a red number plate?

    Also; for anyone that believes Jules Thomas covered up for Ian Bailey, it looks like that ship has sailed;




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,243 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    The white "year -county - number" number plate came in in 1987, before that I'm almost sure it was only black numbers/characters on a red background.

    So yeah Irish cars from 1981 would have a red number plate.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭Dasein


    I thought the statement about the speeding car in the early morning was one of the more credible

    I'm also of the view that she was murdered in the morning so felt the speeding car deserved a deeper look



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    There wasn't much said about it that I recall but maybe there wasn't much to go on (no number plate, make or tyre tracks)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    If it was the murderer driving it, I would say that a speeding car would be one mistake the murderer would have made, probably the only one, as he left no evidence connecting him to the crime.

    Who would have remembered a normal driving Ford Fiesta in the early morning? But anybody would remember a speeding car, nearly forcing somebody else off the road. Plus on top of that, driving fast doesn't really get you anywhere quickly as well, in these narrow country roads.

    If I was the murderer, I would have driven normally, not speeding and nobody would ever have connected the car to the murder scene.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Having just committed the most brutal murder, covered in blood, with dawn approaching, you’d hardly be in a rational state of mind, unless you were a professional hit man.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I understand your statement and opinion, but in contrast to unrational behaviour, no traces were left at the scene of the crime. So even this doesn't make sense. Possibly cleaning up the scene of the crime in relation to not leaving any evidence and then driving erratically?

    We just know far too little.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,110 ✭✭✭Hangdogroad


    Both murders were 15 years apart. He was hardly still driving the same car at the time of STDP.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    A long shot alright (pun intended).

    I mean he lived about 100km away, a chance encounter with Sophie on her 4 day visit would be slim. His mo didn't fit. I don't believe his work or hobby would put him in the area, as I believe he was a full time carer for for his mother at the time. I drive a 17 year old car so the age of the car wouldn't rule him out.

    Post edited by chooseusername on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Everytime I see the acronym STDP I think of PTSD

    It's been dismissed by most but I still find it interesting that Bailey has never taken a lie detector test

    Did he say at one point that he was prepared to take a test but then never did ?

    That's a well used tactic to convey innocence



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I often doubt the credibility and effectiveness of a lie detector / poligraph.

    In many countries supreme courts have decided they are inadmissable in a court of law.

    Legally, I think it's also not allowed, as it would violate the right to remain silent.

    I think, only Belgium and Lithuania do use them, but not sure, if they are admissable in a court?

    I don't think that there is an EU law about it ?



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