Marathon Improvers Thread.

This is a common training strategy in marathon running known as periodisation. Periodisation involves dividing your training into distinct phases with different goals and focuses. One aspect of periodisation involves building a solid base of fitness through shorter, faster races before transitioning into a marathon-specific training block.

The science behind this approach is as follows

Aerobic Base: Shorter races, such as 5K or 10K events, emphasize speed and help improve your aerobic capacity. They require a high level of effort over a relatively short duration. By training for and participating in these races, you enhance your cardiovascular system's ability to efficiently utilize oxygen, improve your overall running economy, and strengthen your aerobic base.

Muscular Endurance: Marathon running requires substantial muscular endurance to sustain a steady pace for a prolonged period. Shorter races can help develop this endurance by challenging your muscles to handle high-intensity efforts. The repeated stress of faster, shorter races strengthens your leg muscles, tendons, and ligaments, preparing them for the longer and more demanding marathon distance.

Mental Toughness: Running shorter races at a faster pace can also help improve your mental toughness. These races push your limits, demanding mental focus and determination to maintain speed and push through discomfort. The mental resilience developed in these races can carry over to marathon training, where you'll inevitably face challenges and need to overcome fatigue and doubts.

Injury Prevention: Building a solid base before beginning marathon training is crucial for injury prevention. By focusing on shorter races first, you allow your body to adapt and strengthen gradually. This approach reduces the risk of overuse injuries that may occur when transitioning directly to marathon-specific training, which typically involves higher mileage and longer runs.

Variety and Motivation: Incorporating shorter races into your training adds variety to your routine, keeping you motivated and engaged. It breaks the monotony of long-distance running and provides a fresh challenge. The sense of accomplishment from achieving personal bests or reaching specific goals in shorter races can boost your confidence and maintain enthusiasm for the upcoming marathon training.

As always I would highligh the fact that individual experiences may vary. Some runners may have different preferences or respond better to alternative training strategies

That's a very odd approach. Higher intensity aerobic training (at and above LT2) has the shortest half-life, so doing it in the off season seems functionally pointless - it'll all be gone by the time target races come around.

It makes more sense to do strength training and LSD in the off season, and then increase specificity (i.e. more MP) towards target races.

How is everyone getting on so far?

Mine going ok. Technically started this training block on 26/06 so 4 weeks gone. Had a 10 mile race on Saturday (The Blaney 10 mile). Was hoping for around 70-75 minutes. Surprised myself and came in at 68. Was over the moon. I've started going to an Abs and Core class on Thursdays which I feel is helping. I've never done any form of S&C before so this should benefit.

Have a few more races lined up. 5k on 04/08 and potentially a 10 mile in August but nothing booked. Then will do a half in September, will probably go for the Dublin half. Wanted to race Ratoath again and get a PB but I think the fact the Dublin one is a bit hillier will stand to me. Had to remind myself I am training for a marathon PB, not a half one.

Back doing trail/mountain running as part of this block. Do it on a Tuesday night, find it really helps the power in the legs. Then a speed session on a wednesday, a recovery on a Thursday with the S&C class then LSR on the Sunday.

Was tipping along quite well myself up until 3 weeks ago. Following Hansons for Amsterdam.

Picked up a soft tissue injury in the hip/glute. Ran a bit easy and rested a bit but missed a chunk of the program.

Physio gave me the green light to crack on albeit with lower volume for the next week or two.

Thankfully it's the type of injury that requires activity to heal.

A goal was 3:05 (PB 3:26), B is 3:15 and the C goal is a 3:20 BQ.

Just over 11 weeks left so am hopeful of the B goal still being on the table.

I'm also registered for Amsterdam. For this one I went with a P&D 18/70 plan. 6 weeks in and if I was to describe P&D in one word it would be "Grind". The previous three marathons I used an BAA online plan which focused on pace ranges to get a specific Marathon time. I'm using the Heart rate reserve ranges from P&D which requires adaptions as daily run types differ, fatigue changes outcomes and volume ramps. 6 days on and one off, Monday is my rest day for now. My weekly distance exceeded 100km for the first time ever a few weeks ago and with the exception of the recovery weeks where the volume drops, every other week will be over 100km up to 112km max. After last weeks recovery I'm back into new territory this week with 68 miles planned including a 21 miler Sunday after a 7 mile Saturday with 100m strides.

My first impressions on the 18/70 P&D plan are that the Tuesday - Wednesday sessions are the bones of the plan. This week Tuesday had 10 miles with 5 LT in the middle followed by a steady paced 14 mile Wednesday. Basically Tuesday is kicking the **** out you and Wednesday is putting manners on you, the rest of the week is just volume- normal training. The first few Wednesdays I was drained. Trying to hydrate and fuel appropriately but most of all getting enough sleep is my main recovery dream. In preparation and to get an idea of where I'm at I am planning on a 10 mile all out race in August.

So- for Amsterdam I am targeting 3.09.59. 4.30/km or 7.15/mile in real money. 🤞

Best of luck to everyone else, roll on October.

Nine weeks or so to Berlin and I'm tipping along reasonably well. I'm following Hanson for the second year in a row and find that I'm hitting the paces for the key sessions fairly comfortably. I'd hoped to do slightly more mileage by now but a couple of planned 60+ weeks ended up closer to 50 due to life getting in the way. Need to be a bit more selfish/committed in the coming weeks.

I generalIy don't feel as motivated this time around which is understandable as Amsterdam last year was my first marathon in six years. Then I also had a clear goal of running sub 2:45 and getting a guaranteed entry for Berlin. I'm aiming for somewhere around 2:38 this time, based off recent race times, but find myself a bit less inspired by that goal. Also, life in general is just a bit more stressful this summer so running seems relatively less important. All the same, I'm in a pretty strong position if I can finish out the plan without any major issues. My mileage for the year to date is a good bit higher than last year so I do think my goal time is pretty realistic.

Main goal now is to make the start line tbh 🫤

I won't bore the arse off everyone with the details but have had a very stop-start year health wise and more to come probably next week (currently in the borderline horrors with a kidney stone)

Original goal was to push on to sub 3:10 and beyond but things very much up in the air now

Hitting 16 miles at the weekend so thoughts starting to move to the fueling for the marathon. Last few years I have fallen down on this part I think, mainly the electrolytes and salt intake.

But looking at gels and solid fuels, what are the thoughts? I like the SIS Beta fuel purely because they have a high content of carbs (40g per 60ml gel). But Maurten comes close, (25g per 40ml gel) so I am thinking of moving to those, as well as the drink mix.

I appreciate some people dont need/want to use gels but I am not at that point myself yet.

So, any thoughts?

Yeah that's what I've used before

Even if the sugar can't actually get through the system in time, the act of taking a late gel may still give a mental boost when it's necessary to dig deep. Whether it's the sweet taste hitting in the mouth, the perception that you're still interested enough to try it or pure placebo effect doesn't really matter. It's unlikely to do any harm unless the stomach is refusing deliveries. (Personal opinion only)

Good to see you're back in the swing of things. Injury cleared up?

As for me, it's going pretty well. I had a horrible marathon pace tempo yesterday where I was well off the pace throughout and blew up entirely in the final miles. It was humid and windy though, so I'll blame it on that. Otherwise, those Thursday sessions have been going great and I've been hitting goal pace relatively comfortably. Tuesday interval sessions with the club have been fine too. I've been deliberately holding back a bit to keep within the Hanson pace ranges. Weekly mileage has been pretty consistent. I'm on course for 70+ this week.

I have been suffering through lots of niggles but thankfully nothing that has stopped me training so far.

I'd been planning on racing a half or a ten mile sometime this month but I'm struggling to find a date that suits me. At this stage I may well not bother and just stick to the plan as it is. Hard to believe there's really only four full weeks of training left!

Im enjoying mine so far anyway. Have ran solo for the last 4 years but this year I am doing my LSRs with a new group so makes it way easier.

Still unsure of time to target for DCM. Definitely Sub 3:30 but not sure if should be even more aggressive and potentially look at sub 3:25

I've been building a base for a long while as well as some pace work. My running week looks like

Tuesday - Trail Run(6 or 7 miles)

Wednesday - Speed work (usually around 1m WU then 4/5 miles at 7:00 and then 1m CD or intervals)

Thursday - recovery run, usually 6m. Abs/Core class also.

Sunday - LSR.

However I think I can add 2 more runs, on a Tuesday morning add in 3/4 miles and same on a Saturday morning.

Recent races

Castleblaney 10 mile - 1:08 (6:51 pace)

Carlingford 5k - 19:24 (6:13 pace)

Now, a caveat. I have ran these races in Saucony Endorphin Pro 2. I will not be wearing these in the marathon. I am doing the Dublin half, going to wear my Kayanos in that and see how I do. I reckon if I can get under 1:30 (PB is 1:32, set last year in ratoath in Saucony Endorphin Speed 1s) I will go for 3:25 potentially.

The injury has much improved, would class it as a minor enough niggle now. Physio gave me the confidence I needed to run on it. Said it was the type of thing that improved with activity. Missed the guts of one whole week and ran nothing but easy for another two so not ideal, but not the worst either. Pain was coming on after a mile initially, it's now not making itself known until about six miles, but even at that it's a lot milder.

Target adjusted from 3:05 to 3:10 for now.

Sorry to hear yesterdays tempo was a rough one. You've gotten something from it though no doubt.

Am racing the FD 10 mile next week myself.

Going well enough for me, like others a few niggles (not something that has been 'normal' for me during marathon training) but getting through the programme.

My bespoke plan is getting very marathon specific now, seven weeks out, with some tough MP (and faster) sessions coming up, quite a lot of progressive stuff. Fingers crossed I get through it as well as last year. We've made a few adjustments to some of the sessions (making them a bit tougher) to reflect the additional year of aerobic conditioning. I'm really looking forward to these although I know there will be some pain.

No tune up races for me in the run-up. I'm pacing 90 mins at the Frank Duffy next week, looking forward to that.

Keep up the good work, all.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058303657/dcm-2023-transfer-requests#latest

https://www.wiggle.com/ie have a sale on at the moment. I picked up 30 SIS beta and 6 beta nootropics last week, fast delivery.

I see Maurten have a new Gel coming out next week. 65g size with 40g of Carbs. Pretty much matches the SIS Beta fuel with their 60/40 split.

And would make it easier to hit the 60g carbs per hour in a marathon, which is my usual strategy.

45 min - 40g gel

1:30 - 40g gel

2:00 - 250ml 320 mix

Thats 120g carbs after 2 hours, bang on.

2:30 - 40g gel

3:00 - 40g gel & 250ml 320 mix.

Should be enough to see home in 3:30

Obviously needs to be tested in training

Would you get much benefit from the additional 320 mix at 3 hours?

Ain't that the truth !

I've actually switched to Precision Hydration gels for this block. I've used Maurten for my last 3 or 4 marathons. I just like trying what else is out there..

I dunno, I find it hard enough to stomach the smaller size gels as it is. I'll be sticking with a standard gel every 4-5 miles.

Just looked at the price of the new gels. €5.50 a pop. I know I'd need less than say a Hi5 or SiS, but those can be got for close to €1 each.

I was going to say something similar. I’d be planning to finish all my nutrition around the 35/40 minutes to go to finish. Grab some water but at that stage I’m just want to be running at that stage and not thinking about when I need to take a gel etc. usually at that stage my stomach can’t take anything else