Restoring bad land rushes vs planting forestry

Jayo2011 · 02-09-2023 1:04pm #1

Hi guys. I have 25 acres of land in roscommon currently overgrown in rushes. Was previously rented to a farmer who neglected it. In the past it would have been fairly decent land where tillage crops such as barley was sown, but that was long time ago, and land has become very heavily overgrown in rush and docks in recent years.

My question is, approx how much would it cost, and process required to restore this land for pasture? Most of it has good drainage. Approx 5 acres does get waterlogged in winter.

Also interested in what kind of money is the expected norm for leasing out poor land per acre in roscommon area, and is there currently much demand for it?

I'm considering cost effectiveness of restoring it to farm myself vs finding a new tenant willing to lease long term conditional he restores long term with cost of restoration incorporated into rental agreement.

Another option I'm considering is setting as forestry. Is this advisable, what grants/schemes are available, where can I get more info on these schemes?

Thanking in advance, and all advise welcome as am currently exploring all options.

Siamsa Sessions · 02-09-2023 2:29pm

Get involved more directly.

Phone a contractor re clearing it. Call into an auctioneer re leasing value. Talk to Green Belt (Galway based I think) about forestry.

What do you want it from yourself?

Ak84 · 02-09-2023 2:40pm

I planted 15 acres of rushy bog land in native woodland, earlier this year.

At 1100 a hectare over 20 years it is 115k, after tax.

I don't regret it and will have a nice little forest in the years to come.

But it was poor ground and not worth the time, money and effort to get it and keep it in grass.

cute geoge · 02-09-2023 3:09pm

Get a price from a few contractor to mulch it and work from there ,

epicmoe · 02-09-2023 4:20pm

if you go the forestry route - please don't do sitka. You can get a better grant, and better tress, and leave a legacy to your kids who will be able to harvest better timber at a much higher value. we planted approximately that amount of forestry, with enfor forestry.125 acres it is on the lower end of the scale for making it worthwhile for the forester, but manus did a great job for us on our place. most foresters just want to bang in sitka, and do everything exactly the same on every site so that they dont have to think/fill out forms differently, collect the money and move on to the next site.

Danzy · 02-09-2023 6:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060513#Comment_121060513

The reason they plant Sitka is because as we move towards sustainable building, ie timber it is going to be Sitka that delivers that.

The person planting as well could have crops in the child's life. 2 rounds of premiums, more from thinning etc.

I'm planting native but I understand the business case against that and it isn't just lasziness driving the forester to do it.

Hard Knocks · 02-09-2023 10:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060881#Comment_121060881

Is the premium not just the first time only and after that it’s conditional in the felling license to replant?

Good loser · 03-09-2023 12:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060881#Comment_121060881

Exactly. The only tree worth planting is Sitka. Like the best grass species is Perennial ryegrass. I would advise not to plant the land in question as you say the drainage is quite good.

Birdnuts · 03-09-2023 12:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062012#Comment_121062012

Thats a bit simplistic - Alot of rubbish spruce plantations around my place in North Mayo and generally in the W and NW yielding barely pulp quality. Thats b4 you get to the long list of environmental etc. issues with them. Monoculture PRG swards have their own issues too....

893bet · 03-09-2023 8:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062058#Comment_121062058

Is the land quality extremely poor? In that case what tree type could thrive better?

Mooooo · 03-09-2023 1:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058311908/restoring-bad-land-rushes-vs-planting-forestry

As said in the first response best to look into all those things directly really but from your description bar the 5 acres of wetter ground its prob more ground that wasn't managed as opposed to poor ground. Re leasing it out again you could offer a reduced or no rent in the first year or 2 to aid in the cost of returning it to grass depending in whats required and then back to normal rent once done. Wet areas may need drainage and others may need mulching and / or reseeding.

If you want to go yourself local contractors should be able to give a quote to get it up to speed.

Not a fan of forestry myself but get info of some of the companies and make a call yourself on it then. Depends on your own circumstances really

Monty Man · 03-09-2023 2:30pm

Just following on from above...I have just levelled 5 acres of bog and HOPE to turn it into a field. Was covered in bushes briars, lots of high banks and pools of water. All levelled now but very soft where turf is near the top. Will leave until Spring and hope it dries out. Any advice about how to cultivate and what type of grass seed to use in this boggy wet ground. Probably mad !!

Good loser · 03-09-2023 6:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062058#Comment_121062058

I've been 30 years in forestry and have no issues with SS, environmental or otherwise. It's a product the market wants. A local buyer of stakes wanted Sitka only, considered Norway Spruce too brittle.

epicmoe · 03-09-2023 9:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060881#Comment_121060881

As far as I'm aware, you don't get a second round of grant for the next crop. you get a grant for the initial planting fencing (and follow up grants for thinning etc) and maintenance grant for 15 years, then its all yours. must replant at your own cost.

Danzy · 03-09-2023 9:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065537#Comment_121065537

Ouch

Say my name · 03-09-2023 9:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065543#Comment_121065543

Government way of taking land out of agriculture and taking ownership really.

Everything from when the decision is made to plant needs a licence granted from the government. Any member of public can object then to the licence, holding up any action for years.

Birdnuts · 04-09-2023 12:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062309#Comment_121062309

If its extremly poor, it will produce poor timber too. Unfortunately our forestry polices here are very primitive in that respect.

Birdnuts · 04-09-2023 12:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064485#Comment_121064485

Spruce plantations are a prime source of water quality issues in many upland catchements due to acidification and silt erosion during clearfelling https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969712014313. The planatations themselves are dead and sterile compared to the life in native woodlands . As for the market, I cannot see the rubbish that comes out of many plantations in North Mayo being any use other than for pulp. Indeed a number of sites near me are not being replanted due to such issues including a very large site owned by Coillte(Letterkeen) which is being handed over the the National Park near there.Due to primitive forestry policies here going back decades, there is a serious shortfall of both quality hardwood and softwood timber for the likes of construction etc. Know a few lads who work in that sector and any spruce used is coming in from abroad as they consider most of the Irish stuff sub-standard.

blue5000 · 04-09-2023 8:40am

Another factor to consider is your age OP. If you’re young enough to see trees mature for your pension then they are a good option. If you have someone to leave it to after you die, consider them too.

I’ve wet land planted and no regrets. Teagasc forester can give you good independent advice and afaik it is free.

Water John · 04-09-2023 9:57pm

What sort of money could you collect annually outside of forestry, which as per post 3 above gets you €11K. Schemes are organic, Acres, BISS, possibly ANC. Organic is €300 per ha = €3K, Acres €3/5K, BISS unknown ANC unknown.

This land largely was once in tillage. The poor five acres if its adjacent to a stream could be worth €2,600 for 2 ha in the Acres scheme. Would lose €600 from organic payment, so net gain of €2K. That is the type of detailed planning involved.

Firstly get a good advisor. Some good private consultants out there. Whichever way you jump, you will be largely 'milking' schemes.

Think you could go a long ways to €10/11K through the various schemes.

All that needs to be done before approaching any contractor to disturb the ground. A good mulching of the rushes now being the exception.

Belongamick · 14-09-2023 8:03pm

Have a similar block as yourself but worse.

It sounds like your block of ground was fairly good at one stage but due to neglect etc.

I have a 15 acre block which was impassable in winter time - at least 4 inches of surface water - perimeter drains blocked and no flow.

In association with a boundary neighbor we agreed to reopen drains to essentially a river in Year 1.

Immediate result and noticeable improvement in rough grazing at the start of year 2.

In winter two, borrowed a few horses to graze it tight in winter 2 - they ate it to the clay.

In spring 3 applied granulated lime and noted how rushes had reduced through drainage by approximately 50%.

Recently, area has been mulched - great job.

Plan next year is to disc and level and hopefully have a level field - lots of hillocks and hollows.

I do not want to churn it up too much but overall drainage had the biggest impact and not crazy money spent.

gillamandango · 14-09-2023 8:52pm

I am same, considering planting as much of 13ha as I can. I 100% agree that in 30/35 years time, Sitka will still be the choice of the commercial sale. Most likening going QCI.

https://www.teagasc.ie/media/website/publications/2019/6273_Productivity_of_southern_provenances_of_Sitka_spruce_CELUP.pdf

Restoring bad land rushes vs planting forestry

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