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Near Misses Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,242 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    It's obviously just the "bad roads" in that clip. Nothing to do with dangerous driving. Or do we only use that excuse when it's a single vehicle collision with kids?

    Shocking driving in that clip.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Just to clarify in case the allegation is made that AGS did nothing - if the driver is reported based on the video, the OP is a witness rather than a victim and not necessarily entitled to an update from AGS. That the OP has heard nothing from AGS doesn't mean that the driver wasn't punished in some way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Mr. Cats


    What kind of punishment though? If the OP hasn’t been called as a witness to a court case, what’s the worst punishment that the driver could have gotten? (just trying to understand)



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    It would depend on the charge that the Gardai applied.

    My point was that the OP shouldn't assume nothing was done (although I'd say it's a safe enough assumption) just because they heard nothing back from their complaint.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,653 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    The oncoming truck is braking very very heavily, ABS fully engaged. I'd imagine he was empty or it would have been another story.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,629 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Agree if they took a formal statement it's being taken seriously so I'm not sure it's wise to be posting the video yet, the wheels of justice turn slowly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,242 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    I've heard back maybe 50/50 from the traffic watch reports I've made. It would be worth the effort to call back to at least know the report went somewhere to keep faith in the system.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Not necessarily. After both parties have given statements, a file would be sent to the Inspector for a decision. The Inspector may well decide not to progress matters.

    I had one Garda Sergeant telling me that he couldn't tell me the actual outcome of a particular report for data protection reasons, but he was assuring me that appropriate action was taken.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭Schorpio


    Just to clarify - I was told when I gave my statement that the van driver would get "3 points, maybe 5". So, my assumption is that points and a fine would be issued. A no point was dangerous driving, court, or anything of that vein mentioned. If the matter was issuing a FCPN, then that process should be over - unless the van driver challenged in court, which I would guess unlikely if they were presented with the video evidence.

    I was also told that I would get a call to let me know how it panned out, and that would be in a few weeks. I didn't seek it (or feel entitled to it), but it was offered without prompt, so I would presume it's AGS policy/standard practice. That was over 6 months ago.

    Thanks to everyone suggesting tweeting RSA, AGS, journos etc. Unfortunately, I'm not on Twitter/"X". If anyone on Twitter wishes to send on the streamable link with a link to my post, feel free.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Unless you’ve a friendly Garda to give you an unofficial update, you aren’t supposed to get any updates unless you are the victim; potential breach of GDPR disclosing information about a potential offence by someone else.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,774 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I've had formal statements as a victim that went nowhere. A formal statement means nothing in regards Garda action.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,327 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Its only a breach if they give any personal identifying information


    Gdpr is an excuse for the lazy



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Or if you give information about an individual whom you can identify - which they will argue is possibly the case in instances like this



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,569 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers



    On an near empty road you do 2 kmph over the limit, get your picture taken you get 3 points and a E160 fine.


    Somebody getting “3 points, maybe 5” for that maneuver seems disproportionately low when its the exact type of behavior that puts people in coffins.



  • Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Mr. Cats


    Thats it exactly - if you don’t end up in front of a judge for this, given how dangerous the manoeuvre was and the strength of the evidence, then there’s basically no real deterrent. Loosing your licence for a year or two seems more proportionate to me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭buffalo


    I had a similar experience - terrible driving, thought I was a goner - reported to Garda and said I had video. Video was never sought, I never got an update. After a few months I got onto GSOC, they got onto the station or local inspector, and it turned out the Garda had spoken to the driver and issued a FCPN. He was very apologetic about not updating me.

    I'd have preferred something more severe, but have to trust the Garda's professional opinion (and I didn't really have a say in the matter anyway).



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,327 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Like what. Their licence plate? Which they already have. They can argue it, but it's not really a good argument. As I said, people use gdpr as a handy lazy excuse for lots of things where it doesn't apply



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭Schorpio


    This is it exactly.

    We have been hearing so much the past few weeks about cycling- and motor-related deaths. Everyone agrees that the tragedies are awful, but there's a "it'll never happen to me" cockiness to so many drivers. That's why it's so important that near-misses cannot, and should not, be tolerated lightly.

    Drivers cannot be reckless and just get away with it, or get off lightly. That's the zero-consequence mindset which leads to deaths and injuries.

    It needs to be the case that if drivers pull these stunts on the road, they know that any dashcam footage will land them in front of a judge and off the road.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭Schorpio


    Agree 100%.

    As I said, I'm not friendly with the Guard I dealt with and I don't know them personally. The call was offered, and I accepted the offer.

    Letting people know the outcome just seems like good policing to me. It would show that AGS actually do respond to reports and take action to try to make roads safer. It buys them goodwill in the community - something they sorely need more of.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,399 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    it's an interesting one; as a witness to an offence - rather than a victim - do you have a right to know the outcome? are pentalty points or other non-criminal offences considered a matter of public record?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Part of the complication is that FCPNs and points aren't issued in Court, and therefore aren't on the public record, so if the Garda was to tell you that the driver of a specific vehicle had been issued with points, that is a potential GDPR issue. And yes, I know that GDPR is often an excuse, but this would be a legitimate concern. Having said that, I've had quite a few cases where Gardai told me exactly that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Whether or not an FCPN has been issued is personal information if the person you disclose that information to can identify the other person. The guards cannot know for certain whether the complainant knows the alleged perpetrator or not, so they are under instruction not to disclose anything to avoid a potential complaint.

    It doesn’t mean that they are right to do it, just that there’s a small risk that gives them a reason not to



  • Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Mr. Cats


    The witness v victim, GDPR etc stuff etc is just a distraction. The issue is that points & fine punishment is not proportionate to the offence. For drink driving, it’s the potential loss of your licence + increased insurance costs + enforcement that has changed the behaviour. A similar approach is needed here.

    With all the dashcam & video evidence available now, a small dedicated unit within the road policing division, backed up by the judiciary with consequential sentencing (legislation if necessary), could quite quickly change driver behaviour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,451 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    GDPR is about processing data and stored data, it says nothing about a Garda telling you about something they had personal knowledge of, if they were the one to issue the points for example. There probably is a separate internal policy restricting what they can say though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Integrity and Confidentiality is one of the fundamental principles of GDPR. A Garda telling you about points/fines issued to another person is a breach of confidentiality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,451 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    That link specifies those principles relate to processing data. A Garda telling you about an action they took is not processing data, maybe it would be if they had to go look it up if they weren't involved in the case. Apart from that, there are wide exemptions to GDPR for law enforcement activities.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    A Garda telling you information about a case that they dealt with as a Garda is absolutely a breach of confidentiality, unless they had a lawful reason to do so. There is no policy or precendent to show that telling a witness about the non-Court outcome of a report would be considered a lawful reason.

    Gardai are covered by the Law Enforcement Directive, a parallel instrument to GDPR with many of the same requirements.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,451 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    All that might be true but it's not GDPR which you originally said. Anyway I'm not interested in getting into an endless back and forth so I'm going to leave it there.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,399 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    is doling out information not 'processing' that information?

    the two main words in 'GDPR' are 'data protection'. giving someone information they should not have is the cardinal sin of data protection!

    anyway, it goes back to whether penalty points etc. are intended to be public knowledge. they're not doled out in a public fashion, and you can't exactly ring the gardai to ask if your neighbour has penalty points.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,653 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    A near miss of a different kind today! Stunning sunny day, lots out cycling when a male cyclist caning along at about 40kph towards Howth on the packed coastal cycle path in Raheny opposite st. Annes park overtook stationary cyclists waiting for the traffic lights to cross the road almost had a head on collision with cyclists coming the other way, proper speed wobble, he just managed to stay on board.

    He was under the impression it was everyone else's fault. He didn't look very confident on the bike, beginner or maybe a new bike. Another cyclist called him Fred & told him to cop on!!

    (I googled Fred & cycling - funny)



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