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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans in OP**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Yes, up there with so-called experts in body language, hokus pokus . If he passes the test he is smart enough to beat the machine, so guilty any which way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Not the results of the test I was referring to but a decision on whether or not to take the test

    It's the talk around taking the test which can be interesting



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Looks like I had it right and he brought the lie detector test into play and never actually took it

    It's quite a common tactic to offer to take a test or state you're willing to take a test but then somehow it never happens

    This is regardless of the evidential value of the test, it's a tactic in the PR battle ,same as Bailey claims he has evidence for the gardai when a review is announced

    Jim didn't take him up on the offer and there the matter ended 🙂

    Bailey is a lawyer and will know the inadmissibility of the test

    Why then is he raising the matter

    Or if he does raise the matter why does he not simply follow through with the test



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.




  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭Ms Robini




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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭FishOnABike




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    My point was and it turned out to be correct

    Bailey stated that he offered to take a test

    It's quite a common ruse



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Maybe he watched a few Jeremy Kylie episodes and realised it was load of billocks!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Ya he probably thinks it is boll*s

    They still bring it up publicly but don't take a test

    To me this tactic usually indicates guilt



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭FrankN1


    Does anyone have any idea what may have happened if it was him? He was in the local pub that night. Could be have walked to her house from there?

    I presume it's likely she answered the door and tried to escape then, running down to the gate.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭Ms Robini


    There are two theories as to how he got to Sophie’s house. One is that he drove part of the way there using his partner’s car and then walked the rest of the way. He was known to have used his partner’s car from time to time at night and it is known that he would sometimes push the car out of the driveway to avoid making noise and then start it and drive off once it was far enough away from their house. Another theory is that he went tonSophie’s house on foot from his home. The distance involved is about 3.9k by the road (and about 2.5k as the crow flies). While it may seem unlikely that a man would walk that distance late at night / in the early hours of the morning in the depths of winter, this behaviour was not unusual for him as he was known to walk the roads at night and this was something he did quite often. It was also common for him to be heavily intoxicated when he behaved in that way. He experienced several violent episodes while under the influence of spirits. The May before Sophie’s murder, he severely beat his partner while under the influence of whiskey. She sustained multiple serious injuries to her face and head and required hospitalisation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    So, exactly the same as may have happened if it was aybody else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭Caquas


    There have been almost 500 posts on this thread since my last post in June 2022. 500 futile comments which do not add an iota to our knowledge of this case. As I have said before, the investigation was so hopelessly botched that this case will never be solved unless the murderer confesses voluntarily.

    No forensic evidence of any value was retrieved from a crime scene although the victim's head was smashed with a concrete block at her garden gate and a blood-stained handprint was on the front door. I doubt if there has been a more egregious case of incompetence in the history of forensic science. The Gardai who almost outdid the State Pathologist in their display of investigative incompetence and corruption. They focussed their investigation on the victim's former lover until his alibi proved water-tight, by which stage (mid-January 1997) the murderer was probably long gone from West Cork so the Gardai tried to pin the murder on a convenient suspect, i.e. the weird English outsider who had been sniffing around.

    The DPP's report on the Garda file is a damning indictment of this attempted "stitch-up". If you doubt that, remember who was the Gardai's sole witness on the night of the murder - Marie Farrell! Her name should be enough to end this thread right here and now. Why waste any more time?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    That’s now 501 futile comments which do not add an iota of knowledge to the case. There was no bloodstained handprint found on the front door.

    Post edited by chooseusername on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Everything in between Caquas last 2 posts was irrelevant



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The Gardai who almost outdid the State Pathologist in their display of investigative incompetence and corruption.

    What corruption occurred? What incompetence and corruption did the State Pathologist perform exactly?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Coercing Marie Farrell to a wrong statement in court, giving drugs to Martin Graham to get Bailey to talk, the recordings of the Bandon Garda station, the loss of evidence all point to corruption and cover up. This means the Gardai hat a vested interest in colluding and covering up. I repeat, it's not Bailey who covered up, he volunteerd his DNA early on, it was the Guards which covered up.

    The state pathologist wasn't exactly wise to state that Sophie's house was "difficult to find" but I could have found it with ease, ( not being local) plus the houses in the area are also on older Ordnance maps of Ireland. He was probably not too motivated to drive to the murder site after a night of drinking before, - it was his birthday. Also, any doctor should have been able to diagnose the time of death as close as to one or two hours. It would have made a bit of a difference if we actually knew if she was murdered at around midnight, or in the morning.

    There is absolutely nothing new in this case. Maybe an author of a book, and a certain film director wanting to make money of the muder by stating "something new", which is just another theory we've been discussing here many times before.

    Some like the stories, some like to make money on this.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Coercing Marie Farrell to a wrong statement in court, giving drugs to Martin Graham to get Bailey to talk, the recordings of the Bandon Garda station, the loss of evidence all point to corruption and cover up. This means the Gardai hat a vested interest in colluding and covering up.

    All that is many things but it is not corruption.

    The state pathologist wasn't exactly wise to state that Sophie's house was "difficult to find" but I could have found it with ease, ( not being local) plus the houses in the area are also on older Ordnance maps of Ireland. He was probably not too motivated to drive to the murder site after a night of drinking before, - it was his birthday. Also, any doctor should have been able to diagnose the time of death as close as to one or two hours. It would have made a bit of a difference if we actually knew if she was murdered at around midnight, or in the morning.

    So saying that a house is diffiucult to find means that the state pathologist was corrupt or was incompetent? As for him having to drive several hours after the night before, who would want to do that? Was it possible that he simply wasn't fit to make the drive and needed to sleep it off? As for finding the place, I've a friend who drove out to me in Leixlip from the northside a number of years ago. Apparently they drove all the way around the M50 before coming off at Sandyford and going all the way back before phoning me to ask for directions: some people are just really crap at navigating!

    @Caquas stated that "The Gardai who almost outdid the State Pathologist in their display of investigative incompetence and corruption." - there is no evidence that Harbison was either corrupt or incompetent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I'd say, it's just a difference of opinion.

    Let's just say, it "just wasn't handled right".



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    “The state pathologist wasn't exactly wise to state that Sophie's house was "difficult to find" but I could have found it with ease, ( not being local) “

    Of course you could, in broad daylight with the aid of Google streetview.

    Dr Harbison would not have been notified until late morning, even if he left straight away it would have been dark by the time he got to the scene. It was 10pm when the forensics team from Dublin arrived and they couldn’t find the house. He asked for the body to be removed to Cork hospital, but he was overruled by the Gardai. He may well have gone to Cork on Monday, we’ll never know. I wouldn’t blame Harbison alone for the body being out in the open for at least 24 hours. Calling him incompetent and corrupt is scurrilous.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Mea maxima culpa,it was the back door.

    And thanks to the utter failure of the forensics, the blood stain is not even described as a handprint in official reports.

    As I said, not an iota of additional information from

    Read my post again carefully.

    The State Pathologist was incompetent, the Gardai were incompetent and corrupt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭Caquas


    OK, call it the back door but it was the door she always used.

    And it is called a blood stain on the official reports because the forensic collection was so bad they couldn’t even confirm what seemed obvious- it was a handprint.

    Not one iota added.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Read my post again carefully.

    The State Pathologist was incompetent, the Gardai were incompetent and corrupt.

    You said the following: "The Gardai who almost outdid the State Pathologist in their display of investigative incompetence and corruption." What am I supposedly misunderstanding about your post because what you've described is that the State Pathologist was almost as incompetent and corrupt as the gardai?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I found it without Google Streetview. If one can't find the house they are either not from Ireland, or unable to read maps, or simply too lazy to do so and not wanting to go there in the first place. Even the old maps do show the houses in the area.

    I would disagree profoundly that the killer "had to be a local" just because Dr. Harbinson had difficulties to find the house.



  • Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭flanna01



    Something that always baffled me...

    Seeing as this was obviously a murder, and a very brutal murder at that

    And given that the Birthday boy wasn't going to be around anytime soon..

    Why could they not get a qualified person in the vicinity to examine the body, if only to get a time line of the death..??

    You telling me there was nobody in Cork that could have made that examination..? it was a murder scene afterall.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭Ms Robini


    A theory is an explanation of one or more facts. A well-supported evidence-based theory becomes acceptable until disproved.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Sophie rarely used the back door, in fact all her's and her guests outdoor boots etc were inside the front porch. Josie Hellen was the only one to use the back door, the track outside was a muddy path down to Alfie's shed. The Gardaí found her keys in the front door and the lock on the latch in the morning.

    " the forensic collection was so bad they couldn’t even confirm what seemed obvious- it was a handprint."

    This "handprint"?;







    It's a smudge.

    As for ;

    "futile comments which do not add an iota to our knowledge of this case. "

    So don't be adding mis-information yourself now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    The local doctor arrived about 11am and pronounced her dead, he did not record the body temperature, but stated that some of the blood appeared fresh .

    Harbison was the only state pathologist, he did not even have an assistant.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




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