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Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    I know of a girl accepted into trinity and its just a non runner due to there being no affordable accommodation and even no accommodation, full stop. Depending how it goes, that might be one more nurse scratched off.

    That's a person who has done everything asked of them, put in the time and effort. And then the rug is pulled out beneath her. Inspiring.

    And then looking at that video of the queue outside that showhouse, do people think teenagers, never mind adults, are thick?

    Damning.

    The elephant running amok in the room, and everyone's too uncomfortable to acknowledge it. Yes, overpopulation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭rgossip30




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Problems that don’t exist “

    have you heard of Sweden or even Balbriggan?



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    A crackdown on illegal immigration and susbsequent, rapid deportation.

    A complete re-examination of the notorious English schools. Either a separation of work permits away from these schools, or a severe reduction in visas handed out.

    A re examination of all visas in general. Both much stricter definition of "benefit" and a reduction in number.

    Visas already deployed temporarily, an examination of whether to renew or not at expiry, with the purpose of overall reduction.

    Ring fencing Irish social housing for irish people.

    A re examination of universities and their reliance on foreign fees.

    No more refugees. The mere suggestion of putting all these extra people on barges is doolally in what it exemplifies. Pay into the EU penalty fund instead. Or not.

    Rapid processing centre for those still arriving without documents and deportation back to last point of origin.

    And so forth.

    Alternatively, let this madness spiral even further out of control, and THEN end up having to do the above anyway.

    Difficult now, versus more difficult later. That's the binary choice.


    I'd be quite confident that would free up the equivalent of a whole limerick city within a year or two. Which is a damn sight shorter than how long it would take to build another limerick city.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    I dont agree with ringfencing social housing for irish people. It should be prioritised for people paying irish taxes.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    I simply cannot justify the idea that, say, an Italian family, unable to afford to live here, regardless of contribution in tax, should be put in the same pool of Irish people who also can't afford to live here BUT that have no other country to go back to.

    It just doesn't make any sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,942 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    So people working and contributing to society should be treated as second class citizens?

    Just btw, what do you consider 'Irish '?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,471 ✭✭✭TokTik


    If you can’t afford to house yourself. You can’t afford to live in Ireland. That is not Irish citizens problem.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,754 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I’ve heard of them, and what solutions are you proposing to address the problems you attribute to immigration? I don’t expect you to address problems in Sweden, that’d be ridiculous, but what are you doing to address problems you see in Balbriggan? I wouldn’t recommend expecting Government to do anything about them, they’re more concerned with economic growth and development, the things which we’re agreed are only one aspect of immigration. Hell of a motivator all the same, especially in politics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,614 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Even if it is or isn't, it's still a reality. People moving from place to place is part of human nature and has been going on for centuries. In this era of enhanced personal freedoms, the idea that you could start introducing severe restrictions on the movement of people seems like something that would be doomed to failure (also, it does sound suspiciously like right wing authoritarian stuff).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    You make the mistake of thinking I feel even slightly deterred by your use of the “ right wing “ label

    and authoritarian is making the immigration topic taboo, authoritarianism in ireland is overwhelmingly the preserve of the left



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    We can say we all have a freedom of choice to travel,but countries have a right to say sorry your not welcome to stay here please leave,

    In the US if you're an immigrant or illegal migrant and you break the Law you will face deportation ,here you can arrive break laws and then stay because you decide you want to claim asylum,

    We can't seem to be able to deport anyone regardless of serious crimes being committed,



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,581 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Government will never sort this out as it benefits them greatly. They love to see the conflict between right and left. It means they do not have to progress policies to improve housing, health of education. It was the same during Covid, the government were able to essentially have a holiday for a couple of years. All they need to do is go on TV every now and again, and spread fear about the rise of the far right. It’s not genuine and they are not working to solve it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,614 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    But right wing parties by their very nature are anti-immigration. You could argue that the central platform of any right wing party in Europe is to be anti-immigration. They have lots of other policies of course, but severe restrictions on immigration is probably the No. 1 thing on their manifesto.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    This is about the closest thing to you can get to a fearmongering far-right slogan

    '"where a native people become a minority in their own country"

    then you compound it with this..

    "Now ask yourself - what would Europe be like if this were the majority culture? And with birth rate and immigration trends, there's no reason at all it won't"

    This is the kind of crap the National Party would come out with.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Good, opposing loose immigration is a sensible position



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Would you be ok with white Irish people becoming a minority in this country?

    if you see a position of wanting to prevent that from happening as being an affront to decency? , is it reasonable to assume you are ok with such an eventuality ?, obviously it could take a hundred years but that’s merely a question of dates



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,754 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    But right wing parties by their very nature are anti-immigration. 


    Hmm, not quite, bit more nuanced than that - right wing parties are very much in favour of immigration that means cheap labour which costs an economy far less, while providing the same benefits to the economy as those who would expect to be paid a fair wage for their labour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    The same logic works for irish and all other EU citizens.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    No they shouldn't be treated as second class citizens. They shouldn't be here at all.

    All things being equal, a working Irish family that can't afford to live here, versus an Italian family that can't afford to live here. It doesn't get any easier in terms of solution.

    If a foreign family needs to be essentially gifted extremely rare resource in order to remain in a foreign country, then its a net negative. Doesn't matter how much tax you pay if you need a near free home worth god knows what.

    The Irish family simply has no other country spare. So while that in itself may be seen as a net negative, the lack of choice for them puts them priority.

    Simple as that.

    Opening up the dwindling few social homes to anyone on the planet was conceptually corrupt with which to begin.

    Reversing it is entirely logical, not to mention morally justified on top.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Ahwell




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Well your not the first....

    Our own people hate this country so much that they would rather we would all be replaced or the majority replaced to immigrants,



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Moving from place to place in any sort of numbers throughout history was in most cases down to invasion and/or colonisation and indeed they had more "personal freedoms" to do so. Border checks and the like are a relatively recent thing.

    We already have restrictions on movements across the world. There's a reason passports and visas exist. Even nations like the US, Australia and other European colonies founded upon and in need of mass migration introduced restrictions as they went on. There's a reason places like Ellis Island existed. Again these were colonies founded upon and in need of mass migration. So nothing like Ireland, or Europe for that matter so that easy argument has little actual value in reality.

    Even those ex colonies started to tighten up entry when inward migration(more, a mass movement of bodies) wasn't nearly as required. Their entry requirements are a lot more stringent these days.

    As for restrictions, the narrative of one side runs with "we have few", the other runs to "severe". The reality is, or rather should be, adequate restrictions, and it seems Ireland at this moment is more on the "few" than the "severe". It can apparently be somewhat arbitrary too. EG with the Syrian war which led to the biggest mass movement into Europe in a century, we accepted around 3000 Syrian refugees, all "vetted". The Ukraine war with similar casualties, even similar actors involved, we opened the gates with zero restrictions beyond prove you're Ukrainian and took in over 70,000 in a much shorter timeframe.

    As for "doomed to failure", I would contend that modern multiculturalism, while not a complete failure, is far closer to that than the success it's been constantly claimed and painted as, not least for those people who look least like, or culturally act least like the 'locals'. It's become an Accepted Truth(tm) that doesn't take much prodding to see the giant holes in that truth. One indicator is no nation, regardless of local history and politics has made it work particularly well. As an example name one European(or European ex colony) nation where Black and Brown folks are less likely to be overrepresented in poverty, crime, social support stats and over generations too. I'll save some time; there isn't one. Ireland, barely a generation into 'multiculturalism' is already reflecting this all too consistent trend and that won't change. Our future extra social issues around multiculturalism will the same as France's, Britain's, Holland's, Germany's etc etc, only the subtle local flavours will differ.

    Personally and imho the horse has long bolted(and the gate's still open) for Ireland to not follow all the others down the same path, so even debating it is moot. The jus soli law loophole opened that gate and even after that was closed by one of the biggest voter majorities of any referendum, successive governments have continually opened the gate more, with no actual alternatives in potential governments to vote for to close, or even restrict movement through it. They're all a Hobson's choice(contrary to the pearl clutchers screaming about the far right boogyman nobody with a functioning braincell is voting for loony rightwingers) as they're ALL singing from the same hymn sheet.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    You're the one who came with this...

    "Our own people hate this country so much that they would retarder we would all be replaced or the majority replaced to immigrants,"

    not me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    There's an autocorrect in there,

    But yes you would have no problem with Us Irish being reduced to a minority in our own country, does that include replacing yourself?

    Some people really do hate us



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    I have no interest in engaging with this rubbish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    So your not happy to see us reduced to a minority in our own country?



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Id say rather than self hate it's far more about buying wholesale with little examination into the "multiculturalism/diversity is our strength" spin, add in currently fashionable anti cultural relativism and here we are. With of course a side order of "sticking it to the right wingers". Which they see everywhere, because one constant throughout history with Accepted Truths that don't bear much examination is believers can be extremely resistant to criticism of them, especially considered criticism.

    Some cross eye moron going on about "Muslamic ray guns" is easy to dismiss and rightfully so, but debates around provable trends and realities not so much, so it's convenient to scream "Far Right!!" for all. Much like those conservative types who lump social medicine, welfare, education and other 'left' type things and clear positives into the same camp as renaming manholes to personnel access portals and deciding one's cat identifies as non binary.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



This discussion has been closed.
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