Women and Mens Dating Preferences **Mod Note in Post #9**

Yeah I get that, but if the guy himself says he’s an incel, that’s what I mean by it’s how they identify themselves. Obviously if they say they’re an incel, they’re indicating that they meet the criteria. Plenty of lads aren’t getting the ride and they don’t feel a need to apply a label to themselves.

2 points on that.

1. I said 'get the ride in the first post. But I also clarified that the ride is the superficial part and intimate romantic relationships are the rest of it. It's not hard to understand, im sure the basis of your own relationship is both sexual and, romantic and emotional closeness. It's colloquially summed up as 'getting the ride' or similar but it's obviously about the lack of emotional intimacy as well.

Point 2. You're totally misunderstanding the Venn diagram of autistic people and incels.

Fact 1. More more autistic people are incels than the average population.

Fact 2 autistic people are less likely to be in romantic relationships than the aberage population because they tend to find it more difficult to form and maintain romantic relationships because of the additional challenges that are associated with autism.

That doesn't mean all autistic people are incels, nor dies it mean most autistic people are incels. I haven't even attempted to quantify the number of people who are autistic and how many of them are incels be abuse that's beside the point. The relavant stat is the proportion of incels who are autistic. I

've given you research on that but you didn't like it. I gave you research that shows autistic people are less likely to be in relationships than the average population, but you didn't like that either. And without any evidence or even listening to what the incels have to say, you make pronouncements on the stats.

It must feel like a very weak position to defend given you don't have any evidence and you just dismiss the research given to you. How did you get yourself into defending a position you acknowledge you don't know much about?

I haven't even attempted to quantify the number of people who are autistic and how many of them are incels be abuse that's beside the point.

That’s entirely the point - you haven’t attempted to quantify the number of people who are autistic and how many of them claim to be incels. You’re offering evidence of how many incels claim to be autistic. I haven’t commented on your evidence either way, it’s entirely your own presumption that I don’t like it, just like you asked me earlier did I want it, and then before I’d even a chance to respond, you presented it anyway.

I don’t make assumptions either way when you didn’t address the evidence I presented earlier to support my opinion, but having read what you’ve just written, I’m assuming you just missed it, which is fair enough.

The OP isn't interested in discussing the topic in the opening post.

My point couldn’t be easier to understand - there is no causal relationship between involuntary celibacy and autism.

You came nowhere near even addressing it, other than to present evidence which confirmed your own biases about the relationship between involuntary celibacy and autism, which I pointed out could easily be similarly attributed to any number of other conditions in exactly the same manner by way of explaining the reasons for their inability to form relationships with the opposite sex.

That was the point where you claimed I misunderstood, you were referring to getting the ride, then when I confirmed that I was referring to getting the ride because that’s what you referred to, which is what defines involuntary celibacy, you claimed I misunderstood and you were referring to relationships.

I ignored the snarkiness which did nothing to strengthen your argument.

Incels believe that too about autism, it’s why so many of them self-diagnose themselves as being autistic, by way of justifying their attitudes and behaviour towards other people -

But the study, like all research, includes some limitations. For example, the mental health challenges and diagnoses were self-reported by the participants, not measured through validated assessments.

“The major caveat is that all of these symptoms and disorders were self-reported by the respondents, not measured using psychometrically validated scales,” Ellenberg explained. “So, none of the results should be considered prevalence rates of actual symptoms, but rather a reflection of what the respondents feel that they are experiencing, based on their own understanding of what those symptoms are.”

https://www.psypost.org/2023/06/incels-experience-a-complex-combination-of-psychiatric-symptoms-but-feel-they-cannot-be-helped-by-mental-health-professionals-165960

That’s not to suggest that people who are autistic don’t struggle to make friends and form relationships, nor does it imply that people who are autistic are more likely than anyone else to be involuntarily celibate and experience depression as a result of being incapable of finding anyone who wants to have sex with them without being paid. Relationships are a two-way street, which incels understand too, but they just don’t care, they care more about the validation they get from other incels.

For those reasons, and many, many more, it’s simply a mistake to conflate incels with people who are autistic or draw any inferences from a correlation based solely upon self-reported diagnoses by incels themselves. Their lack of success in being able to relate to anyone, never mind members of the opposite sex, is nothing whatsoever to do with autism. They claim society doesn’t understand them; it’s precisely because society does understand them perfectly well, that almost nobody wants anything to do with them. Hell when James Damore can manage to maintain a relationship after the crap he wrote about the differences between the sexes, you know it’s nothing to do even with being an asshole. It’s the fact that most people see incels as just being too much like hard work to be worth the trouble:

https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/16/james-damore-google-memo-interview-autism-regrets

It's one of the obvious, well know asprcts of autism (among many other traits, of course).

I've noifea why this became an argument. One side of the argument is the fairly well-known fact you said in the post above, plus tons of research. On the other side of the argument: nuh-uh

Yeah I'm really surprised this thread didn't turn into sh1tting on women too.

Why don't you start us off. What about promiscuous women makes you cross?

What about men and women who dont want kids?

I dont, so im not looking for women who have good "child bearing traits"

Do you think that's how it works in reality or how people answer in box pops on YouTube and clickbait entertainment segments shot to look like interviews?

For example, in your relationship, do you see the "human part" of your relationship as a facade? And do you see your relationship as being about reaping maximum profit for your animalistic side? Nothing to do with the other person, just your animalistic side profiting as much as it can?

OK. So I suppose the question is whay do you thikk are the visceral parts and which ate just the "human parts"?

The post you quoted suggested height and earnings. So how would a short poor guy ever have a partner and a family?

If I understand you, you're saying the unconscious stuff is basically the relationship, with the fluffy stuff like having fun together or having similar values, is all just a "Business wig".

I know there's an unconscious part to attraction. Research suggests one element is having complementary immune systems which is understood through smell and is all unconscious. But its far too simplistic to say all relationships are basically all about the unconscious stuff.

For a start, not all relationships have the same goal. Some relationships are just friendships. Are you trying to maximise profit from your friends? Some relationships are about children, some are about companionship and never intend children.

People are complex

Me and my autistic friends are proof that's not true. You've probably watched the good doctor and thought that all autistic people are like that. Maybe you have issues with autistic people.

The fact is that autistic people come in all types. If there's one thing you should learn about autism, and it's the first proper thing I learned about it, it's that if you know an autistic person, all you know about autism is that you know an autistic person.

Here's some things you might not have realised. They're not true for every autistic person but they''re generalizations.

• Autistic people have loads of feelings but sometime have trouble identifying what they are actually feeling. Is that anger, fear, nervousness? It feels like all three. Plus they feel even more strongly than neurotypical people. They are really intense feelings.
• Autistic people are generally more moral. They have extreme feelings about what is right or wrong. It means that they can be the most ethical people you meet.
• People think that autistic people don't have empathy. People think autistic people don't care because they either don't pick up on social cues or they don't appear to show empathy. The reason they don't appear to is because although the feel something a neurotypical person doesn't pick up on it because the autistic person doesn't communicate it in a regular manner. The truth is that autistic people feel extreme empathy.

So, I've read the research papers.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/6A934637D21AEE4C1D90FAF5FB63D769/S2056467822000159a.pdf/incels_violence_and_mental_disorder_a_narrative_review_with_recommendations_for_best_practice_in_risk_assessment_and_clinical_intervention.pdf

The 40% in the first one references a study done by the ADL. I followed their link and there's no reference to autism. It does talk about mental health, anxiety and depression but no reference to autism. The paper itself also states that no research has been done to see irf incels experience psychosis, dysmorphia or personality disorders. Basically it makes one suggestion, doesn't provide a link to the study and comes to a conclusion.

The next study is worse. It quotes an article out of context. In the article itself it says.

In other words, the notion that autistic people can't communicate and are therefore unable to form relationships is a myth. The data doesn't back it up.

The incels who reported being autistic were self diagnosing. They believed that autistic people can't form relationships and therefore they are autistic. Autism diagnosis can be tricky. I believe that if people think they are autistic they should act on it . An autism diagnosis for adults is very expensive so many people can't afford it. But if people see themselves as autistic and do research and manage to make their lives better, then that's great.

But in this case it's a group of people who aren't looking for help in making themselves better, they're people looking for an excuse.

You should read the article.

And remember that autistic people are far more likely to be at risk from violence the commit it. They're also far more likely to experience discrimination than commit it.