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Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    You included legal for migrants, but apparently forgot legal for asylum seekers. Even Vradakar a few years ago namechecked places like Georgia as origins of chancers claiming "asylum"(though he kept to those from paler nations, don't want to upset the pearlclutchers there). Those 'losing' their documents on flights here from safe countries are chancers and should be thrown out at the earliest opportunity. But of course they won't be. Just add them to the pile being shipped in and whinge it's all the fault of the boogyman far right. As per usual. Hell, even if they do get official deportation orders it's up to them to deport themselves in the majority of cases. It's beyond bloody ridiculous.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Because while you may want to live in a multicultural fantasy land on the back of some deeply felt barely examined politic with a large sideorder of base exoticism, while avoiding like the plague the clear and demonstrable social issues over generations that same politic causes in Every Single European Nation that has run this feels over facts politic, many do not.

    I can damn near bet the farm that if a non White European nation within little more than a couple of decades went from local ethnicities to "every other person" being White European you'd not view it nearly so gaily, nor dismiss it so readily.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Maybe you could try reading a history book. Even recent history will do. What you will find is the pattern is far more that different peoples don't integrate particularly well and the more unlike the local population they are the less likely they will integrate, or indeed be let integrate.

    Damned near every single conflict in history has sprung from a Them Vs Us narrative and both tend to be pretty rigidly defined. Can you tell an Irish Protestant from an Irish Catholic? No, but a couple of centuries of distrust down to murderous mayhem shows too many can. Can you tell the difference between a Serb and Croat, a Russian or Ukrainian, a Tutsi or a Hutu, a Jew or a Gentile? When it comes to history and hard realities your naivete is telling.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭mode1990


    The same crowd advocating quotas , deportations etc , should remember our HSE , and every other corner of our economy rely on immigrants, nevermind those we don't see who put products like fish & veg on our plates ! In the states a head of lettuce would cost $10 without migrant labour ! I'm old enough to remember the UK mantra of NO BLACKS , NO DOGS , NO IRISH, we were lower than an animal ! Cop the **** on !



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,471 ✭✭✭TokTik


    If the Italian family cannot support themselves here, we should be repatriating them, as EU law allows us to.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    You're selling a pyramid scheme.

    Besides the conveneniently forgotten small point that once upon a time Irish people were doing all the jobs migrants do now, ask yourself, how is it working out so far?

    Better? Not on your nipple.

    Let me guess though, the growing problems can be remediated by even more migrants. Am I right?

    Nothing says sustainable and smart like continually handing over the dependency of the country to migrant populations. Very brave and bold idea.

    I heard there's a man selling bridges in New York too, I'll have to look into it.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I think you'll find those folks working in the HSE are highly trained legal immigrants who applied to come here legally. Spot the word legally. Only the differently mental are against legal immigration.

    Again and this may come as a shock; This. is. Not. America. And we hardly need to import their crazy many decades long issues around the exploitation of cheap labour immigration and race relations, or lack thereof.

    And it's funny how 30 years ago when the extra EU migrant population was significantly smaller than today we were able to put fish and veg on our plates and all the other things too. How did we manage then?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,910 ✭✭✭enricoh


    The price of lettuce in the states is hugely relevant to people in Ireland, thanks for the update.

    Do you live in Ireland yourself perchance?



  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭mode1990


    The paddies are no longer navies, take channel 4 news for example, majority of its correspondents are of Irish heritage, just like their Mp's, Union organisers, their art & culture, and my personal fav their music !



  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭mode1990


    It's all relative , let's deport all the Asian & African bus/taxi drivers, you'd be on here squeeling about the lack of service !



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  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭mode1990


    As I pointed out , they fulfil a lot of other roles that do not require an education, would you work as a carer for example, I bet you wouldn't, below you're obvious over qualified tertiary education !



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    There's nothing good ever achieved in looking down on the work people do.

    Calling Irish people "navies" then, is precisely the same as calling migrants doing it now "navies".

    Now follow through on that attitude...one is perfectly happy importing non indigenous people..to work as "navies"

    I'll tell you this, it sounds suspiciously like slave labour to me.


    Whereas, respecting all work as valuable, if we weren't importing people that essentially reduce employment quality, all that "navie" work would be paid better and have better conditions and would more realistically align with the laughable economic demands for the likes of housing (and speaking of the rapid increase in housing cost and declining availability oh its funny the cause, so many coincidences).

    Anyway, needless to say, it's all a load of shite.



  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭mode1990


    You've made my point , if migrants were paid at least the minimum wage then basic food essentials would cost more but then we'd have a whingefest over the price of goods !



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Me. Earlier.

    And it's funny how 30 years ago when the extra EU migrant population was significantly smaller than today we were able to put fish and veg on our plates and all the other things too. How did we manage then?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Or, hear me out, if Irish people were paid more to do those uneconomic jobs, wouldn't need migrants at all.

    But which came first, the chicken or the egg?

    Migrants lowering wages in certain jobs, or Irish people leaving them?


    And that's all ignoring the near protection racket surrounding those jobs in the first place.


    If we had a sustainable and thoughtful model of economy all Irish people could have living standards beyond compare.

    But we don't have a sustainable and thoughtful model of economy, we have a demand-creation economy based on migrancy that is of dwindling use to the majority, and effectively of actual harm to the majority to boot.

    Look at the stuff going on around us. And then remember that this is the supposed "good times". Yikes.

    They killed the golden goose out of greed. Fable level economics, including leprechauns.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    What's deportation got to do with the hse ?

    Last I checked the majority of my fruit and vegetables comes from south America and Africa



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,614 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Would there be Irish people available to do the jobs in Ballyvaughan? The assumption would be that they are working or at college elsewhere in Ireland or abroad (and certainly not because they were forced out of the town by non nationals.)



  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭mode1990


    Well carer's are paid almost €20 per hour , which is not to be sniffed at , however the natives are in the minority, its not about the race to the bottom , there are some unscrupulous employers out there , it's the low man on the totem pole who's afraid a migrant will work for less making him redundant & turning him racist !



  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭mode1990


    All picked by migrant Labour, how else can you fly grapes from Chile across the world ! Fruit in this country was once seasonal but thanks somebody willing to do a back breaking job for a pittance yore nicely saited!



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Or picked by local people on local farms why would they need migrants



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,551 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    He's dead right saying the rioters should be deported, who the hell do they think they are fighting on the streets and looting shops.

    Sure they will probably show up here next knowing we are a soft mark country and there is zero chance little Helen will ever sign a deportation order.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,942 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Claiming asylum is a legal right. Asylum seekers are legal.

    It is up to the system to investigate and decide if they are given refugee status or not. They are legal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭mode1990


    Agree , any refugee involved in criminality should be deported , but to say every African refugee should be deported is just racist ! What if the rest of the world took the same approach during & after the second World War , to our shame Jews were denied landing at limerick back then ! I'm sure your post will receive a lot of thanks too !



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    That's a different claim now ......

    The claim was we couldn't become a minority in our own country because of integration,

    Now we can't become a minority because we migrated,

    Both claims are wrong,



  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭mode1990


    The last census had over 75% describe themselves as white irish , unless you're a traveller then this paranoia of being overrun is totally baseless !



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Not true at all ...

    We've a foreign born population close to one million,



  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭mode1990


    Well then you better take it up with the CSO , or is it a conspiracy! You probably believe milli vanilli actually performed those tunes and having their Grammy taken away was another miscarriage !



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Again, name a single nation in your multicultural dream where Black and Brown people aren't over-represented in poverty, crime, social issues and social welfare stats. Again, you can't, but you also can't admit that because it folds your house of cards all too easily. After all if the dream survived the waking some nation somewhere should have gotten it right by now.

    Socioeconomic factors are most certainly in play, racism certainly is and both with remarkably repetitive regularity, but one of the other pachyderms in the room that you're allergic to looking at is the cultural part of your multicultural dream. Ably demonstrated by the differences in outcomes between Indians, Sikhs and Pakistanis. The former two are much less likely to be in the above stats. The same "colour", facing the same prejudices. To a skinhead muslamic raygunner they're all "Pakis". And yet...

    Then we have East Asians. Not exactly invisible to the same racists, particularly in the US over the years. Seen as slant eyed Yellow Peril coolies who at one point didn't have the same rights as Whites enshrined in US law. Yet in the US they're far less likely to show up in poverty, crime, social issues and social welfare stats than the White American population never mind the Black American population. To the degree that of late they've been dropped from the People of Colour stats and dialogue, because they skew those stats and shine an uncomfortable light on those pushing that POC agenda.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    An interesting angle to this debate, how it's framed and where the focus lies is that the majority of our inward migration have been and are pale of skin. Polish folks alone dwarf the number of African folks, as do the Ukrainians after little more than a single year.

    It's also informative as far as how actual 'multiculturalism' actually works. Beyond the early days of "they're eating our swans" nonsense they're essentially invisible. Ditto for the thousands of pale faced Germans, Spaniards, British etc and Ukrainians that stay will go the same way.

    We have an Irish Black History Month, but the Poles don't warrant a damp Tuesday in November. Why? The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Or the problem gets the Right On sop for the feel good optics, because god forbid we'd have to actually look at the wider picture. I'd be willing to bet that few Black people in Ireland were asked, nor wanted a month to mark them out.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,942 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    They may be invisible to you.

    There is a polish festival since 2015, involving many different groups and open to all.

    Just invisible to you.



This discussion has been closed.
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