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Your prefered QF

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    France

    Where, for you, have the biggest alarm bells emerged in recent games?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    New Zealand

    And no doubt if we beat NZ or France in the quarters and make a SF you’ll find a way to write that off. Is it just that desperate need to say “I told you so” that drives this or what? Because it’s almost pathological at this stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,729 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    New Zealand

    I'd prefer NZ but it's very marginal. If we're gonna win the tournament we'll likely have to beat all 3 of the other top 4 countries in the world.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    New Zealand

    They weren't though, that was in your head.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    New Zealand

    Another quality contribution. I will leave you to it so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Shehal


    France

    The ranking show who's the best side in the world which based on the evidence is undoubtedly Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭noc1980


    Any other side ranked #1, on a 13 win streak, grand slam winners with a test series win in NZ last year would be hot favourites for this RWC. So why are we 4th favourites? Well, because of our history at the tournament and because of our stuttering form in our last 4 games.

    Now some people will say the 3 warm ups "don't matter" but these same posters point to NZ's warm up loss to South Africa as proof that they're in trouble.

    Our history matters more than warm up form though. As Steve Hansen said 4 years ago when we beat NZ and hit world #1, Ireland has experience at world cups, experience of flopping. It's very very difficult to reverse that trend, just look at Mayo trying to win an All Ireland. Liverpool couldn't buy a Premier League win for decades and they play it every year, not every 4.

    History matters, it's why so many on here are confident of us beating a Scotland side that rarely beats us. We can't pick and choose when we want to look to history. If we take comfort from our record against Scotland then we have to face the reality of our woeful record at world cups.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,771 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    France

    Now some people will say the 3 warm ups "don't matter" but these same posters point to NZ's warm up loss to South Africa as proof that they're in trouble.

    Literally the opposite is happening though. Some posters are saying that the 3 warm ups show we are a team in decline and then they are completely ignoring the NZ match (and the early French matches) and that is being pointed out to them.

    The reality is that the warm-ups, for the most part, give a very incomplete view of where sides are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    New Zealand

    We can’t pick and choose what we look at. But yet you have done exactly that in this post by comparing Irelands uninspiring wins a month out from a meaningful game to NZs record loss 2 weeks from their biggest pool game. You’ve ignored that Ireland have a body of work to fall back on that shows serious class and gives genuine reason to believe they’ll improve as well as the fact that NZ have only just righted their ship ahead of that record defeat.

    No one single thing tells us everything. Each game and series of games needs to contextualised within the wider picture. The last 4 games for example is a completely arbitrary number of games to look back on. It is neither the total number of games we played in our last block nor a logical “other” grouping outside of being one that suits a narrative. Go back just 1 more game and we have Ireland away to a supposedly improving Scotland who were vying for the Championship, suffering a number of injuries in the pack causing serious disruption and winning comfortably.

    Ireland played 1 game with a near full strength team in the warm ups. Just 1. The other 3 big sides have fielded their first string team numerous times over the course of the warm-ups and the RC (in the case of NZ and SA). They all need to be hitting the ground at full pelt in the pools. We do not.

    Also, comparing our history at RWCs to Scotland history against us is incredibly disingenuous. Scotland haven’t been breaking through ceilings leading to a win over Ireland in anywhere near the manner in which Ireland have been leading to a QF win. Again, isolated facts and data won’t tell you the whole story.

    We may well lose a QF again this year. The reality is that 3 of the top 5 teams in the world will be gone before the SF. Not might be gone, will be. That could be us as easily as it could be NZ or France. That by itself doesn’t constitute a choke. If we perform and are beaten by a better team on the day then that’s just sport. If we fail to perform then we can talk about choking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,104 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    New Zealand

    Would you rather be kicked in the left nut, or the right nut?

    We are capable of beating either - but either are more than capable of beating us, and beating us well on a bad day.

    I'm picking NZ purely because our biggest struggle in tight games has been when overpowered. That's just not NZ's style, and a game against them woulf ultimately be played in the open style that suits this Ireland team best. I'm not sure it will be enough to get us into a SF - but it gives us a good shot at it.

    France will have learned a lot from the 6N game in Dublin, and have the players to revert to a more power-based game - whilst still having the backline and ball-playing skills to open us up if the power game starts to suck too many bodies in.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭T-Maxx


    Ah Jaysus if only there was a way to find out who's the best and settle this ding-dong argument, like an actual tournament or something, even if it's only every few years...



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,974 ✭✭✭connachta


    New Zealand

    exact 50/50 right now in the poll!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭accensi0n


    New Zealand

    They say it takes more effort to be positive than negative, I think some of you lads are just really lazy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,736 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    Bit unfair on the 90s rugby, we came closest to actually winning a knockout game at a world cup, in '91, some great players like Geoghan , and the club scene was probably never stronger.

    I admit Irish rugby changed when O'Driscoll got the hat trick in Paris and a winning Munster group.

    I have a bad fealing about this year , the draw is so difficult , beat South Africa or even play well and not ship injuries and we will be ok, but so many bad memories of previous WC , '11 in particular , hopefully Johnny can lead us to a good one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    I agree with your point about the '91 world cup, some serious talent in that team but no real depth. Despite the loss it was a big game for the sport in Ireland and the growing sense that we could emerge as a serious rugby nation. Australia really couldn't contemplate losing to us and ultimately they found a way, somehow, to win.

    For me the consistency of high performance against top teams is what sets this Ireland team apart.

    It wouldn't surprise me and it shouldn't surprise anyone if we break down all the teams we play and win all our games by more than a score. The last year when we've had more or less a full squad to pick from we have been quite dominant. Generally the games that have been closer have had some uncharacteristic aspect to it like Crowley having to start against Australia or the various calamities that happened against Scotland. We've still won those games and others and I think so long as we maintain a good proportion of the squad throughout I think we can be as dominant in this World cup as we were in the Six Nations.

    The world cup is obviously a different level and round 4 into the quarters could be very gruelling but I think if we play close to our best we can win the World Cup. We don't need to be perfect every game, just close to our best.



  • Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭penybont exile


    England .....if .... and a big if ..... we can get past Fiji 🙂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Whats unfair about the criticism of us in the 90s? We finished last or second last in every single 5 nations. we were pathetic as a national team all through the 90s. we lost 11 games in a row from 91 to 93.

    The AIL was great having started up and the dublin and ulster clubs really got to understand the strength of the club game in Munster and it helped start the change but the decade from a national perspective was horrible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,736 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    We still had a better World cup in the 90s than we ever had - fact - and should have beaten Scotland too - so its unfair to label the 90s Irish rugby as pathetic.

    and the professional structures now in place, were not in place for most of the 90s.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    we didnt have a better world cup in 91 than any other.

    its not at all unfair to describe a decade that Statistically was the worst decade in the history of Irish rugby. From 80 Test matches Ireland had won 24, 14 of them against nations outside the game’s elite.

    6 head coaches resigned or were sacked in the decade.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,736 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    91 was the first World cup I watched, and was the closest Ireland ever got to winning a knockout game and reaching a semi final . 2011 was a better team but did mot deliver against Wales.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,961 ✭✭✭TRC10


    we didnt have a better world cup in 91 than any other.

    We literally did. It's not up for debate. It was the closest we ever got to winning quarter final. And it was against the eventual champions, which is never the case when we get knocked out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,830 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    We lost in the quarter final. So it was the same as many other years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,961 ✭✭✭TRC10


    It was our narrowest margin of defeat (by far) and against the eventual champions.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,618 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Tries were only worth 4 points then. We lost 3 tries to 1.

    Edit: actually doesn't make a difference, we lost by 4 in 2003 and would have lost by 3 in 1991.

    Jesus, we get absolutely battered in the quarter finals, about 20 points on average.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,830 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    It was still a loss.

    We won one game in that world cup, against Zimbabwe. We have won more games at other world cups. So it definitely is up for debate.

    Edit: the above is wrong. We also beat Japan. Still less wins than in other years

    Post edited by irelandrover on


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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,618 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    That QF defeat to Australia was probably the only one where we could at least say we did our best and the result was a disappointment though the performance was not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,292 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,830 ✭✭✭irelandrover




  • Registered Users Posts: 358 ✭✭El Vino


    France

    Anyone change their mind based on DuPont injury?



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,618 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    No. I think a little too much is made of Dupont. He's possibly the best player in the world but France are still incredibly strong without him.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,292 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    France

    Booked flights for quarter final so based on ticket availability alone, I hope it's new Zealand. But to play France and be at it would be amazing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,198 ✭✭✭✭Crash


    France

    I think they're still an incredibly talented team, but he plays the general role as well as scrumhalf, and I think they do struggle to play like a cohesive unit without him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭Boscoirl


    France

    Regardless of who we play. I want Ireland to keep winning games. If that mean NZ. Fine.


    we are the point where we shouldn’t care who we play.



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