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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 545 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    I’d be able to say with some confidence that the maps they provided their commanders on the ground were all soviet era maps that were all 35 years out of date. That’s why a lot of Russian troops got caught out using google maps to get around.



  • Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭TedBundysDriver


    I saw a video saying Russia had been using North Korean artillery, but that it's absolute garbage. I cannot, however, verify the validity of that report. 



    It's basically a race at this point as to whether Russia or NATO can ramp up military production fast enough for it to make a difference. Russia don't seem to be in a position to stockpile munitions or other equipment ready to launch an offensive of their own. The attack they launched in the north in the hopes of forestalling the Ukrainian offensive seems to have pretty much ground to a halt. And they just sent a newly formed army to the front before training was finished and without a full equipment load, just to free up experienced troops to try and plug the gaps forming in the southern front, which seems to be on the verge of collapse.


    If the Russian front does collapse in the south, it's hard to predict what happens. Russia made a strategic withdrawal in Kherson last year because they knew their position was untenable and they wanted to avoid a rout. This time they don't seem to have anywhere to fall back to - they don't seem to have had time to throw up any more in-depth defences beyond the third line.


    If Ukraine break through, then they have about a month before the seasonal rains to make it count.


    I found this map showing the front in real time: https://liveuamap.com/


    The salient around Robotyne is clearly visible. I'm not tactician, but if Ukraine breaks through, they will probably want to roll up the lines and destroy as much of the Russian army and equipment as they can rather than drive straight for the coast. I guess Russia will be trying to fortify the coastal cities if they can.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,963 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    Ukraine will avoid the cities I'd imagine and cut off all trains, bridges and runways



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,741 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The train line running through the southside of Tokmak is vital. Seems to be the only line to Melitopol.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,502 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Ok like the 40 odd African, Asian and Middle East countries that voted to declare the annexations of Ukrainian territory illegal. Or the 2 (Syria and North Korea) that voted with Russia?

    hmmm



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,897 ✭✭✭✭josip


    If Ukraine get through the lines and as far as Tokmak, I think they'll skirt round it and go for the coast. Yes it's a big risk in a narrow salient if you don't secure the flanks. But Russia doesn't seem to have any offensive capabilities. If they can prevent a counter attack from Tokmak and take Polohy on the other side, then it's open fields with few settlements and roads. I can see them opening up a 30km wide salient all the way to the coast. They can be patient over the winter and Tokmak will be much easier to retake next April along with Melitopol and Kherson Oblast.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Lirange



    It’s nearly all of Europe. Not just “Western Europe.” Serbia & Hungary being rule affirming exceptions. Even the latter has given way on many occasions on critical votes. There have been very few occasions that Europe has been this united on any pressing issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,255 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    Lol "few Allies outside of western Europe and North America" 😂 . I mean that's only pretty much EVERY European country ( all the most prosperous economies east of the Atlantic) and the undisputed heavyweight champion of everything military: The US. Not to mention the likes of Australia, S.Korea , Japan. But nevermind all that.

    Russia has all the tinpot dictatorships and banana republics on its side. And which of them are willingly supplying hundreds of billions of aid out of their own pockets? Think single digits. Low single digits. The lowest single digit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,634 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Not surprising rhetoric coming from the Vatnikan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,772 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Just read Fintan O’Toole’s article this morning and feel queasy.

    There is something rotten in leftism in the west, even now it wants to stop Russia being opposed.

    O’Toole, who seems to become an expert on any subject at will, without the requirement for extensive study, says that Ukrainian victory requires a ‘military miracle’.


    it’s time to ‘define victory differently’ according to him. In essence he wants to give Russia a chunk of Ukraine.

    Lazy opinion columnists, who believe that they know what the populations of countries they have never lived in should do are a scourge.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,432 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Was it the same article he had in the Phoenix in February. Just nobody read that one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,182 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    it is 30km from Robotyne to Tokmak, thats like O'Connell St. to Greystones, its taken the bones of 3 months to approach their first of several lines, which will presumable get more intense. The casualties /km must be horrendus already

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,741 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Article is paywalled.

    Would you have any good quotes from it ?

    The consensus is that the lines behind the first will be less intense not more.

    But ya casualties for Russia have been horrendous as has the loss of equipment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,454 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Even before Ukraine I had somewhat cooled on O'Toole: something of the stereotypical middle-class waffler who offered intellectual autopsies over any kind of solutions or forward thinking. It was intersting how he kept popping up in British circles as an Irish perspective on Brexit and from what I recall of that, he represented the Irish position well enough (though it'd take some brain damage for any Irish person to come out supporting Brexit).

    I'm not surprised he's taking an approach that thumbs its nose at Ukraine's autonomy; not because I think he's a tankie, or getting some under-the-table rubles, but his air is that of someone whose intellectual altitude has probably stripped him of perspective. Easy to just wave away portions of another country in some jolly little Think Piece.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,804 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    First confirmed loss of a Challenger tank. I think there's only been 6 Leopards confirmed destroyed so far. That's 7 in total, with up to 31 Abrams arriving this month, it's pretty sustainable. No doubt the 31 Abrams is just the start. Pretty much everything else the US has announced has been supplied on a continuous basis (Bradleys, Strykers etc...)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,747 ✭✭✭zv2


    Ah but good old military expert Fintan reads Encyclopedia Britannica on a regular basis.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Rawr


    +1

    When I see these newly minted Military Juntas in the The Sahel lean heavily onto a pro-Russia vibe, I can't help but compare this in my mind to a new passenger bording the Titantic right after all the lifeboats have already left, and the bridge is underwater. It's the kind of relationship that will barely benefit the Russians, and most certainly won't benefit them.

    Beyond these, who are Russia's friends?

    South Africa: Steadily becoming a failed state, with de-facto single-party rule by the ANC. Beyond the fiction that is BRICS, the South Africans offer little to Russians beyond giving Putin's lads a rat-run to escape to when things evently go to hell. South Africa herself is just making it increasingly harder to get out of the hole they are in, especially if they expect Russia to help there.

    North Korea: Experts at keeping WWII-era Soviet tech running, these guys are at least a technical asset, but are also the worlds most isolated pariah state with a slow-burning famine currently underway. North Korea are highly dependant on Russia for their survival, but Russia get relativly very little out of this.

    Iran: Mostly useful for cheap drones. Iran themselves are pretty isolated and their support for Russia opens no more doors than even North Korea.

    Syria: Reeling from civil wars, Isis occupations and also side-lined for being a dicatorship, Syria is mostly useful as somewhere to place a naval base. They have little else to offer Moscow apart from potental cannon fodder as was rumored at one stage last year.

    Armenia: The Nagorno Karabach confict became a sort of rehersal of Soviet tech vs. NATO tech fighting we're now seeing in Ukraine. Azerbijan backed by Turkey and their tech, went up against Armenia and their Soviet surplus. After that war Russia remained as a "Peace-keeping" force on behalf of the Armenians in Nagorno-Karabach but ths is very much related to how much control Russia still has in this old Soviet republic. The Russian's even own the public railways there. Despite this, Armenia has been trying to warm up to the EU & NATO, meaning the Russians will probably loose this ally, especially if they are unable to prevent an Azerii takeover of what is left of Nagorno-Karaback.

    India: Where to even start with these guys. For the world's largest democracy they are really crap at picking sides when a fellow democracy is under threat. India has a history of being friendly to the Soviets. Soviet gear was often used by them when they were at war with Pakistan or China, and the Soviet Union would often be a supporter in these conflicts. But beyond nostaliga, I don't understand what India think they are doing by sitting on the wall and being friendly to the Russians now. Russia got a market for their oil here, but India only pay bottom-dollar for it, and there are no pipelines worth mentioning between them. There's no advantage to Russia beyond a friendly face at conferences. For India, it just damages their standing in the world.

    China: By far their most useful ally, but also the most dangerous to them. China is their source for tech and weapons. Unfortunatly for Russia, this is Chinese-standard tech & weapons that will give them no edge at all with a NATO-armed Ukraine. By the end of this conflict China will likely have a signifigant foothold in much of Far-East Russia and if Moscow are very unluckly Beijing might even try to reclaim lost historcially Chinese land. China can and will let them fail, and then profit from the situation as best they can.

    Beyond the above, we have tin-pot dicatorships smattered around Africa and South America, while almost the entire democratic world oppose Russia and support Ukraine.

    Russia is not the Soviet Union. Russia is not a Superpower. Russia is an increasingly desperate and failing state that is trying to stave off its own extinction while somehow clinging onto a small cohort of petty kingdoms who haven't a clue what they are doing, or have little choice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,640 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Fintan is middle class? I love that one... middle class seems to be anyone whose views I disagree with and who can string a sentence together. Pretty sure he has solid working class credentials.

    I'm no Fintan fan, but the irony of people on this thread, on this site, having a pop off him for being "an expert on any subject at will" and expressing opinions "without extensive study" is gas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭reforger


    World Aquatics will allow Russian and Belarusian athletes to compete in their events under a neutral flag.

    World Aquatics will allow one Russian and one Belarusian athlete per event to compete at World Aquatics competitions as neutral athletes (with no relays).


    In order to be eligible, athletes will need to meet a strict set of criteria that includes showing no support for the war in Ukraine and having no contract with the Russian or Belarusian military.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    He sure presents as middle class, but it's just a moniker and if you're sure of his origins then let me know cos I'm happy to be corrected as to his background.

    And there's no irony at play either cos fundamentally, nobody's paying me to spout bullshít on a public platform. We're all just Wafflers, unlike O'Toole who gets a wage for opining on stuff he clearly (in this instance by what's reported) has no understanding of. Easy to write off a country's borders as a little bit of intellectual contrarianism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,741 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    "Russia is not the Soviet Union. Russia is not a Superpower"

    This is it really. It's just a very extreme version of the old 1900s empires lashing out against a changed world. Like as if instead of doing Brexit the UK decided to invade The Netherlands.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,432 ✭✭✭macraignil


    Maybe this mad dash to the coast that the moskovytes were expecting was all a bit of a game to suck in more of their forces to be chewed up by the Ukrainian army and make putin's forces less dangerous and save more of Ukraine from being pillaged by them. Progress towards the coast has been slow according to commentators but will the price of slowing the advance by Ukraine prove too much for putin's forces to sustain and once they are weakened to a critical level will they have anything left to stop Ukraine liberating the occupied territories? Good number of moskovyte artillery pieces destroyed yesterday again and without artillery will the moskovyte army be able to function?




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,747 ✭✭✭zv2


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,772 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Ha, there is an irony for sure. But I wouldn't expect anyone to take my opinions very seriously, I can't think of anything I'd really be an expert on either. I pay for an Irish Times subscription, where people like Fintan O'Toole give opinions. I wouldn't expect anyone to pay for my opinions, but I'd like the ones I do pay for to come from people with more solid expertise.


    I think bringing class up as a way of dismissing someone's opinion is unfair, for sure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,747 ✭✭✭zv2


    Nobody can make sensible comments on the offensive unless they know how much resources Russia has left. There is great uncertainty about this, and Fintan O'T doesn't know either, so predictions are to be taken with a grain of salt. If someone does an inventory on Russian equipment I'll listen to their opinion.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,182 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    all we have is both sides issuing dickie information. If Ukraine is dipping its toes in the sea of Azov in a month then Ukraine was boxing clever and the russians knew they were going to be beat or were fooled and they have been lying about their general status, if not then it looks like what it is, which would raise a lot of questions

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,747 ✭✭✭zv2


    Also Ukraine has destroyed most of their radar so they can't see where Ukrainian fire is coming from.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭TedBundysDriver


    Thought this was a good thread on the strategic picture:


    Basically they need to get the main road along the coast into range of their 155mm artillery, so about 30km from it. At that point it will force a Russian withdrawal from everywhere West of Melitopol.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,897 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Agreed, by October we'll know how the 2023 offensive went. If they don't advance any further, I think that it will be considered as a failure by many and the Russians will be relieved considering the stat of their forces over the past 6 months.

    If they are laying siege to Tokmak and have (artillery) fire control over the rail line that will be acceptable to most on the Ukrainian side.

    If they can get further south and the salient is wide enough that they can safely/reliably exercise fire control over the M-14 coastal road, that would be seen as a success.

    There probably isn't any point in pushing for the coast but not being able to push back the flanks far enough and to then get hammered by Russian artillery until next April trying to defend a thin strip of land.

    Many analysts think that the first line of defences that has already been breached at Robotyne was the most difficult and that the remaining two lines will be easier.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/02/everything-is-ahead-of-us-ukraine-breaks-russias-first-line-of-defence-in-stronghold

    But the Russians will be motivated to hold on knowing that the rains will save them. The Ukrainians will have to break through the lines somewhere or the Russians will be able to spend the winter creating new defensive lines further back and the Ukrainians will be confronted with the same again next year.



This discussion has been closed.
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