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Meter exchange and Isolator issue

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    The situation seems to be a bit of a mess in general

    Once the EV/Main Board is fitted I assume you'll potentially have sockets added for hoovering and circuits added for garden lights and sheds

    They'll have to clamp down on the companies wiring every EV at the cabinet . That could be tricky to demonstrate it should been wired from main board in house I dunno



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    What's the current situation with smart meter installs and fitting isolators?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,132 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    No idea. Hardly refusing to install smart meters if the isolator isn't there are they.. ? My meter cabinet had an isolator on it before smart meter install as I had to move the meter location few year ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭meercat


    They aren’t being fitted with meter replacements

    they are being fitted on new installations


    if one is required on an existing installation then a certificate 1 has to be supplied to esbn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,708 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Our indoor meter was upgraded to a smart meter a few days prior to Christmas last year. They fitted an isolator as part of the job.

    40 year old installation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭allinthehead


    It's ridiculous, they can change the meter without the cert 1 but not an isolator.

    As usual It's all down to money. They got the smart meters so cheap the isolator is probably more expensive.

    ☀️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    The isolator is mostly an interface between ESBN and the REC for new connections

    It also enables switching off for maintenance

    Apart from that fitting isolators probably only encourages more of these type installs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭allinthehead


    My old meter had an isolator, when they installed the smart meter they should've fitted an isolator. What about the safety of contractors? Changing boards/main switches etc.

    ☀️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Ya there is that maintenance aspect to having an isolator

    Isolators and Main MCBS are only encouraging work from the box though

    As my inspector used to remind me it's what happens after that's the problem.

    Wont be long before there's add-ons to the EV\Main boards



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭allinthehead


    Very true, It's such a strange situation though, I mean it should either be okay to connect at the meter cabinet or not. None of this last resort stuff.

    ☀️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭meercat


    I think esbn are concerned that on older installations ,if an isolator is fitted then there’d be nothing to prevent a non rec from doing a rewire or board replacement without providing a certificate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    Lack of an isolator wouldn’t stop the likes of him!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭allinthehead


    Yup, like this guy.


    This is the Esb lad putting in a smart meter trying to explain to a customer that the install is a ball of sh*t and needs to be disconnected. So much wrong here.

    Post edited by allinthehead on

    ☀️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭meercat


    You may want to edit that. You can clearly see a company name

    I wonder did he do the solar installation too Or perhaps solar was done before the car charger (that number may be the solar installer)


    i think that should be reported to safe electric though



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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,603 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    This is happening anyway, but I get the point this would make it easier for anyone (REC or non-REC) to replace the DB.



  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭horseman34




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.




  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭horseman34


    Imagine forking out close to a grand if not more for the ev charger and the end result is you would have been better off just using the granny cable and not bothering with the charger/install/hassle of all of it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    What is done in the photograph is incorrect, but most cars will only charge at 7.5KW on single phase anyway.

    That arrangement will deliver that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭allinthehead


    Not anymore it won't as it was disconnected by the Esb.

    ☀️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭allinthehead




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    It may not provide adequate fault protection, however.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    Agreed. Although it’s a very short length of cable, the PSC would be quite high at that point - A fault on that NYM would probably take out the service fuse relatively quickly.

    Not condoning it! But there could be a lot less protecting the concentric coming into the cutout.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,210 ✭✭✭lau1247


    Just realized I never did reply with the final fix. Wiring was rejigged and isolator reinstalled back in the meter box (don't know why the original isolator was removed, presumably they thought it would be enough once the one in the EV distribution box is sufficient).


    Has been waiting for Safe Electric audit since.


    West Dublin, ☀️ 7.83kWp ⚡5.66 kWp South West, ⚡2.18 kWp North East



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 216 ✭✭JL spark


    Still a bag of crap that , basic insulation rubbing on meter box going into the cavity ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,210 ✭✭✭lau1247


    Not disagreeing, could be improved but have come a long way compared to how it started

    West Dublin, ☀️ 7.83kWp ⚡5.66 kWp South West, ⚡2.18 kWp North East



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭meercat


    Thanks for the update

    this is not an isolator in the meter box


    this is an (ocpd) over current protective device to protect the main cables


    you never had an isolator fitted

    the car charger company isn’t permitted to do this type of installation without an isolator


    your installation still doesn’t comply with regulations (although neater)


    my recommendation is to get it completely redone and a certificate 1 provided to esbn


    id be interested what safe electric say when they come out



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,132 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Isn't the isolater inside the separate cabinet pictured below on the image outside of the meter box.

    Afaik doesn't the last resort allow for this type of Henley block install. The worst part here seems to be the mess and certainly the lack of cable protection into the cabinet entry point.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭meercat


    I’m talking about the esbn isolator specifically. These works should not have been carried out by the rec as he’d have to be working on a live cable. It’s specifically says that this type of work cannot be undertaken if no mains isolator is installed by esbn.


    these Henly blocks aren’t i.p rated and are also outside the permitted area. No mechanical protection on the cables to the outside distribution board is also an issue.


    if the job was done properly then there’d be no need for the Henley blocks at all and all the connections would be done on the bus bar in the outside distribution board


    the proper way to resolve this is to get a main isolator fitted by esbn and redo the main cabling

    (it’d have been much simpler to run the charger back to the existing distribution board in the first place,but that’s a different issue)


    a certificate 1 is required for this



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,132 ✭✭✭✭listermint




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭meercat




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,210 ✭✭✭lau1247


    Nothing yet. Still chasing and waiting. What makes it frustrating is I have no way of direct contact with Safe Electric to push it along. The only thing I can do is chase the EV Charger installer.

    West Dublin, ☀️ 7.83kWp ⚡5.66 kWp South West, ⚡2.18 kWp North East



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,640 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    So back to your original post

    At the moment I'm trying to get my smart meter to change to a day and night.

    I thought going back from SM to dumb meter was not an option

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,210 ✭✭✭lau1247


    I thought the same initially but it is possible to go from 24 hr smart meter to D/N meter (it might not longer be the dumb version since I think they have rolled out the smart version in Q3 23).


    At the end of the day you will need your provider to make the request. They will try to sway you to use smart plan. If you persist, keep making your case, and advise them that you know it can be done (I know folks that did get it changed successfully) and if you get to speak to an agent that would show any sign of care and competence, they will make the request for you. Be prepared to get rejected.


    Also be prepared that they may say to ask ESBN (happen to me). You can then call ESBN but what ESBN will say after you explain again what you want to achieve is that the provider will need to make the request and then they will do it.


    What I picked up from ESBN (when I spoke to them before) is that they don't really mind making the change but will need that request from provider which is the key. (ESBN may charge a small amount, but that is the same as normal. My understanding is that first meter change requested by home owner is free which is worth a mention if they say anything about charge)

    West Dublin, ☀️ 7.83kWp ⚡5.66 kWp South West, ⚡2.18 kWp North East



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,210 ✭✭✭lau1247


    Final update to this saga. Where I left off the last time was that the wiring was corrected by EV Charger installer but I didn't get the completion cert. After waiting for about half a year with regular chasing of the EV Charger installer who told me that it was selected for audit by Safe Electric back in October 2023 before I can get my completion cert. I got tired of waiting on an open ended audit, I have no way of finding out directly myself or get in touch to speak to someone from Safe Electric.

    After a bit of research I noted that Safe Electric have a formal complaint process and procedure. (Reference: https://safeelectric.ie/help/complaints-form/ and https://safeelectric.ie/complaints-procedure/ ). The kicker is that the Safe Electric complaint time line states to investigate in 1 day and perform inspection in 7 days thereafter. I thought to myself, surely if they can do a site inspection in 7 days, the audit for mine should not take that long.

    Anyway long story short, I gave the EV Charger installer fair warning of what I noted from Safe Electric's website and that I intended to lodge a formal complaint. They didn't even bother responding to the last two messages so i just went ahead and did it. Safe Electric acknowledged the complaint by the next day and cert issued the day after that to ESB. Had I seen this last year, I would have just lodge a formal complaint straight away. I still don't know whether it was the EV Charger installer holding it up or Safe Electric but either way I'm just glad it was moving so didn't push to find out.

    Called ESBN again to arrange for them to come out to replace the 24 hour Smart meter to Day/Night Smart meter. I was asked to get BG to submit the request again (since the last one was more than half a year ago). BG made the request. ESBN didn't show up, I ended up calling them to ask why there was a no show and was told I have to pay €200 for some rewiring (Tail upgrade??) from the note the previous ESBN technician recorded from last visit. I have to say I'm still not sure why/what exactly the rewiring is from ESBN side but I'm not going to argue, just happy to finally get it done. Paid there last week and finally got the meter exchanged successfully today.

    Finally, I want to thank experienced Boardsies that contributed to this and give me guidance along the way. I'm sure the workmanship of the EV Charger installer is still not fully perfect but at least has improved significantly (compared to when it started) and I got the meter installed. So I will call that a success.

    West Dublin, ☀️ 7.83kWp ⚡5.66 kWp South West, ⚡2.18 kWp North East



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,714 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Good to see a positive update. I'm hoping that yours was an isolated case and that the installers are more au-fait with the regs these days. Thanks for taking time to come back and fill us in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭meercat


    thanks for the update o.p

    Some rigmarole for what really should have been straightforward

    If it was done correctly from the start then you wouldn’t have had an additional charge from esbn




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,210 ✭✭✭lau1247


    Yeah I think if it was done correctly by the EV Charger installer from the get go, I probably wouldn't be charged for it.

    West Dublin, ☀️ 7.83kWp ⚡5.66 kWp South West, ⚡2.18 kWp North East



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,210 ✭✭✭lau1247


    I wouldn't be too confident with this company I have to say.. last month in the EV subreddit, another fella got solar done with them too. while he didn't have to rewire like mine but he ended up waiting 8 weeks for the completion cert. Backlog from Safe Electric was the reason he was given. He was actually considering legal action, I gave him the contact for the director of operation. Magically the company send out someone to do a Quality Control Inspection and only then the cert was provided a week after. Sound to me like it wasn't done properly either.

    I don't know if it is just two of us being unlucky or they are just incompetent. I'd suggest to stay away from E*****X.

    West Dublin, ☀️ 7.83kWp ⚡5.66 kWp South West, ⚡2.18 kWp North East



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭meercat


    just to note

    The rec has to come back now and do some additional testing

    He then has to give you the original certificate (and test records)and send a copy to safe electric

    Make sure you get this as it may be required at a future date if any issues arise



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭allinthehead


    That's total shlte about a backlog with Safe electric. The cert can be issued directly to the customer by the electrician, Safe Electric just get a copy of that cert.

    ☀️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,132 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    There was a large backlog or incapability to obtain the actual cert books from manufacturer though I understand. Bit of a **** show for a few months the start of this year. No cert books delivered. Bizarre



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭allinthehead


    I think that was only a couple of weeks though, certainly not 8 weeks. That new crowd running Safe Electric are a disaster, all about the money.

    ☀️



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