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The Wolfe Tones

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,918 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    They were the forces of the Irish side, fighting under the Irish flag, for the Irish people.


    It may help to call them the national army as opposed to the State Army., An acceptance of the facts on the ground.


    No army or Institution is perfect, mistakes were made but Ireland can and obviously is very proud of our forces, even the State ones.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    They weren't our forces. The forces of this state are the Garda Siochana and Oglaigh na hEireann, the Irish Defence Forces.

    Do you count the "Real IRA" who perpetrated the Omagh bomb as "your forces"?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,083 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    They weren't our forces.

    The closest modern day equivalent to the PIRA are the Wagner Group, a group of thugs with a psychotic addiction to violence outside of democratic control and using a nationalist ideology to disguise their self-enrichment and indulgent addiction to violence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    You forgot the "Real IRA" who did Omagh and the "New IRA" who shot Lyra McKee dead. They're obviously heroes to you too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,918 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    A quaint way of looking at it.


    They were the army of the Irish Republic. The State Army, many of whom helped the national army, were turning up to do a job for a week's wages.


    The Ukrainian forces in occupied land are studying past operations of the Irish army in the North, 2 weeks ago they sent a car bomb down a railway track against a Russian position, like in Cloghoge, Armagh in 92.


    That took out one Ruc vatnik, hopefully the Ukrainians had better look than our forces.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I don't count any of them as "my" forces. I don't have any skin in the game. My interest in this is purely from an historical POV. I am more interested in fact, rather than trying put forth a "certain point of view".

    What I do object to, however, are attempts to frame the conflict in particular ways in an effort to try and score silly political points on a public forum. I also firmly object to trying to make it out like the IRA were acting in a vacuum, when there was a ton of atrocity being carried out by all parties concerned. Your posts on this thread, and the ones form the usual Unionist supporting members of Boards.ie, are particularly bent towards that direction. Always very clear in highlighting the excesses of one side, while consistently omitting the equally atrocious actions of the likes of the RUC, UDA, UFF, UVF, the British Army and even the British government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Which acts of your British army heroes are you most proud of? Bloody Sunday? Setting up a centre for peados at the kincora boys home? Shooting kids dead? Or you prefer some of their global work? Starving millions of Indians, raping women in Kenya with glass bottles?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    The facts are the PIRA murdered civilians by the truckload including Catholics, plunged NI into 27 years of nihilism, and protected paedophiles and rapists.

    No context can excuse any of these facts.

    And as the more realistic of their ranks referred to the GFA - Got **** All.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    OK I'll presume you're about eight years old because that's the post of an utter child.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    You ranting is out of control.

    Get a grip on yourself.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    🤣 That's funny because I was mirroring your posting style! Child like with absolutely nothing of value to add. Just throwing your tows out of the pram because the facts have absolutely destroyed your partitionist ramblings.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    I've given you simple and hard facts. You're obviously at the stage where you've completely run out of argument so you just choose to dismiss facts you dislike as a "rant". That's what happens when you choose to believe a fake, Disneyfied version of history.

    Pitifully weak debating on your part.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,918 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    About 70% of those who died at the hands of the Irish army in the North were involved in the conflict or running the State there.


    That's incredibly high and few armies have ever achieved such a level, that was down to their professionalism and dedication.


    It certainly was not all perfect, far from it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    No lad, you've given the thread nothing but a one sided load of biased rants. Step back and address yourself.

    You have the temerity to talk of a "Disneyfied" version of history? You've been the biggest proponent of that, by far.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    By that rationale, so were the Real IRA who did Omagh, and the New IRA, who shot Lyra McKee dead.

    By your rationale, both those acts were carried out by "the Irish side", by "the Irish forces", by "the Irish Army", by Ireland, in other words.

    They were not.

    Funny how none of the posters supporting the Provos have yet addressed the hiding of paedophiles and rapists.

    "No army or institution is perfect". F me. Regarding the Provos, that's probably the biggest understatement of all time. 🤣 I wonder do supporters of ISIS say that too?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭dirtyden


    Quite a disingenuous response. If the Wolve Tones had a bit more musical gravitas you would have less of a problem as is your position with Rule Britannia….I mean that song that glorifies the butchering and pillaging of millions is a little jauntier so not as bad?

    Your position is you have more of a problem with one side, at least be honest.

    Myself I am no fan of either, but I think a bunch of kids singing Wolve tone songs versus a bunch singing rule Britannia can be equated and neither in general mean a whole lot of harm by it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    I've a problem with the glorification of the British empire, as I do the glorification of any empire such as the French empire, the Belgian empire or the Russian empire.

    I'm also grateful for Britain's important role in the crushing of Nazism in World War II.

    I feel good compromise for the Brits would be to replace the lyrics of Rule Britannia with "Good Old Arsenal" at the Last Night Of The Proms or whatever, though I'm not sure how that would go down with Spurs fans.

    Maybe the Wolfe Tones could replace Up The Ra with "Up the Arse", as in that's where they should stick their "music".

    I have a problem with people in this country glorifying a terrorist organisation which murdered civilians by the truckload. This is what the debate is about. The exact same as I have a big problem with Loyalists glorifying the likes of Billy Wright, or putting effigies of a hanged Michelle O'Neill on a bonfire, or "KAT".

    I don't come form a Loyalist background though. I come from a southern Irish Catholic background and so do the eejits who are chanting this dirge. It's incumbent on people to examine and acknowledge and speak out against the toxic bilge coming from your own community first.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    This thread has gathered no moss. Lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    It was always a low bar, but the quality of these Shinnerbots appears to be getting worse if anything.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'd be a Nationalist who'd aspire to a United Ireland by peaceful means.

    Apart from any political side I think the Wolfe Tones music is pure sh*te. That Celtic Symphony is a mis mash of rubbish. To include the word 'Symphony' in the title really takes the biscuit.

    The fact that youngsters are flocking to see these haggard old men at EP amazes me. It's not as if they're The Stones, Fleetwood Mac or even the Dubliners😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,907 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Yep. That was a perfect prediction. Lovers of FG/the Black and Tans still hurt over the utter embarassment they faced.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Look, the PIRA bravely stood up to loyalists mobs, ruc thugs and the British security forces. This is a fact. The British armed forces thought they could just come over, start shooting innocents on our streets, beat and torture people in their homes. Sending nearly a thousand of them home in body bags softened their cough. It may upset you but many of us will always be extremely proud of the PIRA and it looks like many young people are seeing through the anti Republican propaganda and are supportive of the PIRA campaign also. Not everything the PIRA done was right but their war was just and their fight against tyranny was very right.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭TokTik


    One of the 12 July parties was quite literally all over the news last year 2022, where quite a few of them lost their jobs for singing about Michaela McAreavey being murdered ffs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,072 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    I just think it’s hilarious that EP used to be where you went to see “cool” bands. A bastion for muso’s

    The Wolfe Tones were never cool



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,378 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    You can draw a dividing line on perceptions around these topics between those old enough to spend years being exposed to section 31 constrained state propaganda in the media; and those too young for same.

    The sad part is the former group don’t even recognise / understand the extent of those constraints.

    Not that I think the Irish State did the wrong thing by enacting Section 31 powers as it did, nor do I feel the British State was “wrong” necessarily to employ a vast array of censorship, special forces and state craft to supplement their military during the conflict. There was a war on, and both States moved to aggressively protect their interests throughout.

    The irony is that those exposed to those war time conditions and constraints were successfully conditioned to struggle to accept that it was, indeed, a war. Young people are free of these mental burdens, and it’s a great thing that should be celebrated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭TokTik


    Sounds like the British royal family when you put it like that



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭TokTik


    I'm also grateful for Britain's important role in the crushing of Nazism in World War II.


    You must love the Russians then, because they’re the reason WWII was won.



  • Registered Users Posts: 46 anonymouscactus


    True. The maudlin, insipid WTs are not a patch on the Dubliners who at their best had infinitely more energy, talent, and emotion.

    The singing has stopped now and the full horror of what was unleashed a few days has been revealed. Big House Karen has had to cancel her membership of the Big House Club! I can't stop crying.... :D




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,318 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Would I be right in saying that all the ranting and raving and bastardisation of history has nothing to do with a song and all to do with how FG are doing in the polls?



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