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The Wolfe Tones

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    Stalin and Khrushchev disagree with you, but apparently you know more than they did.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    The major thing Britain managed to do in 1940 and 41 was survive. But the simple fact is that the Germans were never going to be able to get across the Channel to actually invade. They had no way of doing this. The best the Germans could hope for was for Britain to withdraw from the the war, so they could get on with their real war aim which was to tackle Russia. Russia was the be all end all of Hitler's war.

    Churchill knew that Sealion was a bluff and that Germany could never get across to make a landing. They just didn't have the maritime vehicles to do it. The Rhine river barges lined up on the French coast were for propaganda purposes and none of them were in any way sea worthy. If the Germans had even tried to use them to cross the Channel they would have floundered before they'd gotten a quarter of the way. And if by some miracle any of them actually made it to the south coast of England they would have been destroyed on the beaches.

    Britain's contribution in the first years of the war helped Britain primarily. It's impact for the rest of Europe was pretty negligible.

    Arguably the greatest impact British forces had was in North Africa and the Atlantic, where she tied up some Italian and German during the years 1940 to 41. But these were essentially side shows compared to what was going to happen on the continent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I've spent decades studying the war and I know very well what was sent to Russia and Britain with Lend Lease. I'm the child of people that were in the Second World War and the grandchild of a man that served in the First.

    The fact of the matter, however, was that Lend Lease did NOT win the war for the Russians, nor any of the Allies for that matter. It helped, certainly, but saying that Russia would have lost without it is nonsense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Revisionist crap. The PIRA only came into existence because of loyalist attacks on innocent Nationalists and the assault on innocent protesters by the police force. Their numbers were still small until the British armed forces began their campaign of beating, harassing and murdering innocent Nationalists. You're spitting on the graves on all those who were murdered by the British side in the war with your lies and revisionism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I don't care.

    The stats and history are on my side. Lend Lease did not win the war for Russia. That was already decided before Lend Lease had its biggest impact.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    🤣 Not for the first time you've been destroyed with facts on this thread and then you resort to that childish rubbish. You just had your arse handed to you, again! Suck it up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    And silly, ahistorical, nonsense sums you up. 😉



  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭Ronald Binge Redux


    Sure the Wolfe Tones are great craic. Especially Flow River Flow. Powerful stuff.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    Will you leave the country when we vote in people like Maurice Quinlivan as minister for defence and Gerry Adams as president?

    The likes of yourself, Joe Duffy, Fintan O'Toole and others are merely feeding into the SF momentum



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,889 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Tying up Germany on the Eastern front was hardly a mere detail?

    I have never seen anyone claim before that Russia's fighting was negligible to winning the war. That is an extraordinary claim. Usually debate is over whether Russia or USA deserves more 'credit'.

    Even the surrender of Japan is attributed by some historians in whole or in part to the Soviet declaration of war against Japan on 7 August 1945, followed by the Soviet invasion of the Japanese puppet state of Manchuria.

    The Soviet invasion of Manchuria began the same day that the atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, August 9 1945.

    Fun fact:

    During the course of WWII, more than one third of the world's population was ruled by either Japan or Germany - making the Axis powers (I think, open to correction) the most successful imperialists in history (based like I said on x% of world population ruled rather than land-mass or whatever) albeit very briefly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,701 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    Google “Kitson Kenya” -

    that war criminal was sent by the British to “sort out” the Irish, yet we are expected to believe the British army were peacekeepers



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Think it was just under a third but you are not far off. At the height of Axis expansion, there were an estimated 675 million people under their control - around 175 million in Europe under the Germans and around 500 million in East Asia under the Japanese. World Population at the time was something like 2.2 or 2.3 billion. World population now of course is many times that. Incredible to think that in those dark days of 1939 - 1941 it was only the UK and her commonwealth allies that stood up to Germany and the Axis countries. And that Russia supplied Germany with so much materials in 1940, before it was invaded.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    Why are you asking me to leave the country? Seems a bit threatening? Old habits die hard I suppose given that people who stood up to the Provos were frequently "asked" to leave their communities - if they were lucky.

    Gerry Adams protected paedophiles. Do you think it would be "hilarious" if people object to having a president who protected paedophiles?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    The projection is fairly dripping off this one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Absolute scumbag of the highest order he was. But of course, he was highly decorated and lauded amongst the British establishment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Not really, you had one mass murdering imperialistic force fighting another mass murdering imperialistic force. What Britain were doing in India at the same time period was along the same lines as what the Nazis were doing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,613 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Unfortunately the fellas haven’t a note in their heads, the footage of them at EP confirms…lots of mistakes…and off key warbling….

    so whatever about the appropriateness of them being there, the round about historical arguments about this that and the other.

    whatever the Wolfe Tones ‘had’ …..they quite plainly haven’t got it now… so the eejits at EP should have been a bit more discerning as regards that choice of band.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    Nobody is asking you to leave the country.

    I'm just wondering how you will cope if the shinners, as expected, romp home to "up the Ra" chants in count centres around the country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭TokTik


    I don’t think people realise how bad it was for the Irish in NI.

    No vote if you didn’t own your house, no jobs if you were Catholic so no chance of buying one. I’m sure if FFG tried to bring that rule in now the same posters would cheer lead it.

    or expect those without deeds to just push for peaceful means of representation.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 922 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    They might get into Government but they won't be there long when the brutal reality of actually governing as opposed to shouting from the sidelines kicks in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Actually 2,500,000 ( two and a half million ) Indians fought in ww2 with the British, not against them, and would disagree with you. I suppose if you could get away with it, you would be telling people the British were killing hun dreds of thousands in Ireland during ww2 too. It was the other way round. Nearly 100,000 Irish people helped the British war effort. All of whom were fairly treated. DeValera and his Irish government executed a few IRA prisoners in cold blood, and there was no outcry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    However, many more millions of Indians wanted the British out of their country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    The Irish played an extensive role in the occupation of India, You're obviously not very self aware so it's obviously not entered your mind that you yourself are comparing the Irish to the Nazis.

    Of course the notion that British occupation of India was comparable to what the Nazis did is arrant nonsense and you provide no supporting information. Colonial occupation of any kind is bad enough without people resorting to bogus, bad faith comparisons to the most abominable regime in history - a regime which such Irish nationalist heroes as Sean Russell and Dan Breen were open supporters of, incidentally.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,889 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Indian troops themselves played an extensive role in the occupation of the other British colonies.

    Empires use their colonies as a source of troops. The Ottomans used Greek jannissaires as some of their best soldiers but Greece still wanted independence from Turkish control.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    That's a disgusting post. You're using the fact that many Indians and Irish were living in poverty so joined the British army to try to excuse the mass murders committed by Britain in those countries. Millions were starved to death during the Bengal 'famine'. A tactic used by Britain for centuries as we know. In fact, the Nazis aped this tactic and it was proposed as a superior method than what they were using.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Some Irish people as members of the British army treated the natives like dirt. That's how it was done in the British armed forces. This is why those Irish people and others who fought with the British army have always been looked at as traitors. There was some mitigating factors such as extreme poverty.

    Millions were starved to death during the same timeframe as the Nazis. This is a fact. Being starved to death or put in a gas chamber still lead to the same result. So as I said, it was 2 rotten imperialistic powers fighting eachother. There wasn't much to tell them apart except that the British had far more experience at mass killings and had learnt better tactics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Rubbish. 2.5 million Indians and hundreds of thousands of Irish people volunteered to fight with the British last century, not against them. They were treated fairly. Certainly a lot fairer than the IRA man Sean Russell and the Nazis treated their victims. Incidentally, to halfway get back on topic, do you think the crowd seeing the W. Tones  at E.P. would even have known DeValera and his Irish government executed a few IRA prisoners in cold blood, and that there was no outcry?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,732 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The Wolfe Tones have been around for years. I remember in my younger days, anytime they played near me, there was always trouble as the people who frequented these concerts were tanked up on drink and pseudo-nationalism. They attract a certain crowd let's say, the same type of people who jump American tourists..


    I don't really get the pearl-clutching all of a sudden, but I guess there is a wider conversation on how the next and younger generation views the troubles and the PIRA. There is certainly a type of revisionism going on, on how the PIRA were plucky local boys fighting the British Army for Ireland when in fact they killed more innocent civilians and Catholics than the very security forces they were meant to be fighting.


    The PIRA were scum, utter scum and should be remembered as such. Misty-eyed romanticism about them should be challenged.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,732 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Wolfe Tones attracts the same type of people as those across the water that goes on about WWII and Germany.

    Same mentality, same nonsense, same idiots.

    At least they take the piss out of it.




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