Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

Tonynewholland · 03-09-2023 6:32pm

Nitrates derogation change won't be known until next year. Is this a sign it won't change for another year at least.

Sheep breeder · 03-09-2023 7:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063019#Comment_121063019

Agree about the dung sampling, last year after weaning the lambs we’re together for six weeks and split the males and the females and tested the two batches 3 days later and the ram lambs came back with a high stomach fluke and the ewe lambs clean as a whistle, didn’t make sense.

whelan2 · 03-09-2023 8:11pm

15 cows calved 15 fr heifers, then a fr bull today. Used 25 sexed straws. Good going I think

Siamsa Sessions · 05-09-2023 12:03pm

Any advantage having a 16 ft 6 slat instead of 14 ft 6 on a tank?

I’m pricing a tank that’d hold 300m3 at the moment and the options are:

1) 110 ft long with 14 ft 6 slat

2) 95 ft long with 16 ft 6 slat

It’d be 7 ft deep with an agitation point on either end.

There’d be a feed rail running the length of it so cows would be standing on it to eat in winter and then walking on it on the way to the parlour the rest of the year

Say my name · 05-09-2023 12:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121071587#Comment_121071587

Find out the weight bearing capability of both slats. Standard nearly now is 10 ton. These are called tractor slats. Don't go for anything less.

Make that 7ft deep, 9ft deep. Most have pans now able to do so. 8ft at minimum. 7ft too shallow nowadays.

Make the tank larger than you think you need.

White Clover · 05-09-2023 12:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121071587#Comment_121071587

I’d go with the longer tank as it means more feed face. Also keep in mind if there’s a shed going over it to allow that the agitation points are outside. I.e. a six bay shed would be about 95 feet so your agitation points would be inside that shed, so a 105+ ft tank is what is required. 7 feet deep is shallow, the cheapest storage you’ll get is by going down, 8 or 9 feet is ideal. Also most agitators are 8 feet so they work best in anything over 8 feet deep.

Say my name · 05-09-2023 12:17pm

If you don't have a separate tank for dairy washings and you'll just be using one tank. Those washings are classed as slurry with same storage and spreading requirements. Rules only going one way that way too.

More capacity than you think you need is your friend.

cosatron · 05-09-2023 12:27pm

make the tank as big as physically possible.

mr.stonewall · 05-09-2023 12:53pm

Would you consider a spine wall in middle of the tank and go with 2 rows of 14'6" slats.

Whatever the plan make sure to put more than enough storage.

+1 for a min of 8ft deep.9ft is now the norm around here. Very little extra in concrete to add an extra foot in-depth unless you hit rock

Siamsa Sessions · 05-09-2023 1:47pm

Thanks for all the ideas and comments lads.

I'm not sure but there appears to be rock in the ground so that's why I was thinking 7ft might do. But I guess if I've to get a rock breaker, then busting down an extra foot (or 2) won't add much to the cost overall.

The agitation points would be outside based on how we measured it out, which is kinda pushing me towards 110ft. And the longer feed face makes sense in that regard too.

I'm a little unsure of the parlour washings requirement. I think it's 30L/day per cow for a month. Google tells me that's roughly 1m3 so that'd be 60m3 for 60 cows.

Is that right?

Does this have to be separate from the main storage tank? Or can it be added to the main tank and you just can't spread it as washings?

Thanks again.

K.G. · 05-09-2023 1:59pm

Go for 9ft anyway but have separate capacity for dairy washings otherwise you have to store the 16 weeks of that too.the best move I ever made was to build slurry storage I didn't need in the early days of developing there is no such thing as too much slurry storage in milking cows

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121072126#Comment_121072126

Mooooo · 05-09-2023 2:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121072126#Comment_121072126

The rock can always be used for farm tracks as well, go the 9ft imo. As said regs are only going the one way so ideally put in more than you need storage wise. If you can keep a separate tank for parlour washings do, but if not as said the closed period storage required will be increased by that figure per day.

jaymla627 · 05-09-2023 2:44pm

Had a unauthorized dd taken this morning for 3k from aviva l and p for pension contributions, changed to bank of Ireland this spring and sent the dd mandate form to aviva that march, but they decided to only resume the policy now and backdate the payments to February, wasnt informed of this our asked to give my consent which you'd think was obviously needed....

Bank of Ireland wont cancel the transaction on my side, as I signed a direct debit mandate with said company, the company have to ring bank of Ireland and cancel the request for above amount, its crazy carry-on, with Ulster bank they would of cancelled the request and refunded the money into your account no hassle, the fraud implications alone if this is bank of Ireland policy are serious

older by the day · 05-09-2023 3:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121071587#Comment_121071587

I suppose if you are going building I would go as deep and wide as you can. And do it once. The last tank I did was a 16ft slat by 9ft deep. Great capacity. I add a lot of water from march onwards and I spread the watery slurry all summer. But of course it all depends on the budget and price.

7ft is madness. If it's very hard rock ask about going a couple of feet above ground. You can rise it up around it with the stuff that comes out or if you have some filling somewhere. But the rock is always handy for soft patch's somewhere. There will be a big heap with that size tank.

older by the day · 05-09-2023 3:46pm

By the way, is the rest of the country getting the dust these days. A fine layer on everything around here.

https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/rare-blood-rain-weather-event-27653120

Siamsa Sessions · 05-09-2023 5:20pm

This is where the tank would go. It’s an old dung stead I got cleaned out a few weeks ago. The cleared hole is about 3-4 feet below the yard already. The tank would run the length of the wall. The feed rail would go above where the bank of clay is.

Same thing from the other side below

Pinsnbushings · 05-09-2023 6:12pm

Don't know if you are going for a grant, but there is about 40percent steel required in a 9ft deep grant spec tank versus an 8ft deep one.

I got caught with that one, I built a 9ft with 16ft 6 slats 18 months ago, great capacity in it though.

whelan2 · 05-09-2023 6:26pm

This is ours

20230905_182106.jpg

orm0nd · 05-09-2023 7:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062221#Comment_121062221

I see Farmer Phil has issues with misuse of mectin dosing, cringed when I saw him using cydectin last june, not thinking he'd have losses this year but what resistance would they have next year? I think his vet is more to blame here than the product itself.

JustJoe7240 · 05-09-2023 8:28pm

@Siamsa Sessions Have you decided to go at the cows?

Bass Reeves · 05-09-2023 9:08pm

@Siamsa Sessions unless you are going into cows do not worry about feedface. Dry silage bales solves any issue with feed face. Anyway depending on shed design you can feed at the back. 96' is approximately 6 bays long. That shed sounds like it will exceed TAMS costings

Go 8' minimum deep and 9' if you can afford it. Get you grant application specifications right from the start. I remember getting 16'6'' slats from Creagh conc in NI for one of my tanks they were tractor rated to UK specifications but not to Irish Spec's. They were a fabulous choice at the time and I am still delighted with them. Just a little trick when putting concrete around slats get 4-6'' strip's of 3 or 4'' Kingspan ( this will depend on the slope and height of your slats ( you want it 1'' outside your slats and 3'' below the top of them). If the slats ever have to be replaced it's makes it real easy for a road saw to cut to that depth. Leave at least 2-3'' of tow room at front and back of pens slope it and cattle will push dung back down into the tank

Remember face the open side of your shed North East ideally, if not North and finally East as the last option. While the dungstead may seem the cheapest option an extra half day digging on a track machine might be better value to get placing of tank right. However you probably have to follow present planning choices.

Consider going 10' deep if it's only for a beef systems and 5 bays, put a sloped concrete floor behind 1-2 pens. You can put a lot of runners or light stores in such a set up. If you can face the shed North you can have an Eastern feed face opening for more room to that pen or feed I side I'm the shed if needed.

The stone that comes out can be used to backfill around tank, it can be used under silage slabs or under the floor of sheds. I know it's an extra cost but you will always used that stone.

If going for cows somebody else advise

Good loser · 05-09-2023 9:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073797#Comment_121073797

What is wrong with using Cydectin in June? How did he get to have losses?

Pinsnbushings · 05-09-2023 9:38pm

@Siamsa Sessions another small thing but is really annoying me about my shed... get slats with big enough agitation points, mine are very small, a right pain for the contractor to get the agitator into the tank.

I believe there are different sizes, I never thought to even ask.

Mooooo · 06-09-2023 1:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074150#Comment_121074150

Using it too early can stop calves from developing their own resistance. White dose first works better that way imo

Siamsa Sessions · 06-09-2023 9:52am

Thanks again for the insights lads.

There’s a few ifs, buts, and maybes but the situation with me and cows is this:

* I’m pricing a tank at the moment. Grant spec. Slats and shed on top would come later. The tank is needed whether I go milking or start to keep more cattle over winter. If the tank was in place, with security fencing or whatever fencing is needed around it, then I could start milking.

* I’ve a 2nd hand parlour lined up and I’d be putting it into the existing shed (in the pic). Collection yard is already in place. Roadways, paddocks, water troughs, all in place too from my father’s time. Bit of tidying up (ongoing) needed but the layout is there.

* The slurry finances have to add up thou. If the tank is too expensive for the no. of cows I could milk (60-ish on 75 acres), then milking is off the table. I’ll put in a smaller tank and build up cattle numbers slowly instead.

* If the finances add up and I go milking, I’d milk 30 in 2025 on a part-time basis. When 45 acres of leased land reverts to me in 2026, I’d go to 45-50 and then 55-60 in 2027.

* By that stage I’ll either be getting on grand or I’ll hate cows. If I hate them, I’ll sell them, ripe out the parlour, and go back to cattle again. The slats can still go on the tank but it’d be a different type of shed on top.

That’s the loose plan. There’s a dozen little things I’m trying to do to better position myself. Experience last week milking for someone was 1 thing. Getting into Bord Bia yesterday was another. Reseeding a few acres every year. Regular contact with the accountant is ongoing. Etc.

And genuinely - reading this thread is another thing that I think is a great help. So thanks again.

whelan2 · 06-09-2023 11:41am

No harm to get milk lorry driver to have a look too. Had ours here this morning, he'd be the type who'd complain after about how we did things...

Say my name · 06-09-2023 12:53pm

A bit of a day out.

Montbeliarde open day.

Siamsa Sessions · 06-09-2023 1:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075675#Comment_121075675

Yeah that’s on the to-do list. There’s plenty room to turn where the bulk tank would be going but it’s the roadway from the road into there that I’m not 100% about. It’s a proper stone/gravel roadway and won’t be used by cows but them lorrys are big wide yokes these days

Wildsurfer · 06-09-2023 2:05pm

110' of 14'6" tractor slatts with one manhole slat will be €12k inc vat. The 16'6" are only €1500 extra

Edit to add: 110'x9'x16'6" tank cost me 42K last year excluding digging out and slatts. Grant spec.

cosatron · 06-09-2023 2:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121076297#Comment_121076297

Have you a co-op who will buy your milk without any ridiculous condition. I heard maybe chinese whispers, that aurivo are asking new entrants to supply 25% of milk over the winter months.

Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

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