Gov Plans to reduce speed limits

redunited · 07-09-2023 9:20am

Nothing more than Revenue Collection and giving the Useless Greens more power to feck us over.

Surely this means vehicles will be on the road longer thus pumping out fumes longer?

Speed does not kill, idiots behind the wheel kill.

We have people from all over Europe and the world driving here, with different rules and standards do they consider this at all, not to mention the state of the roads is appalling. I know at least 2 people who still drive without having a full license.

Red Silurian · 07-09-2023 9:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078600#Comment_121078600

It won't work for 1% of the time in say Dublin where connectivity is good, but in the mountainous treacherous roads of Tipperary that might be as low as 50%. My own car, for example, often loses GPS signals at many spots between Clonmel and Lismore for up to 10km at a time

stooge · 07-09-2023 9:25am

Speed is a factor in almost every collision.... what I mean by this is that if those involved in every fatal collision had slowed to 1kmh then it's likely they would not have been killed. The real question that the investigators and powers that be need to ask is.... what caused someone to speed?

Has an analysis been done on the days and times of fatal RTCs? Do most happen at weekends?, During school runs? in the morning/at night etc etc

Having this info made freely available would give more confidence in any measures taken. A blanket speed limit reduction seems crazy and counter productive. It will likely involve more people taking risks to make up time lost travelling at new speed limits. And for those saying to leave earlier.... people have never been so busy...it isnt always possible.

My 2c...Use the data to determine a pattern in the days/times of fatal RTCs (weekend?, evening? etc etc) and target resources to these days and times.

Reducing speed limits universally is a lazy approach....

redunited · 07-09-2023 9:27am

Making Dash Cams mandatory for all cars would be a better option, I bet it would be a real eye-opener to the authorities.

timmyntc · 07-09-2023 10:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079296#Comment_121079296

GPS speeding tracker solution would not work. There are far too many variables and ways it could fail - trying to enforce it on speeders would be impossible. GPS needs to be always correct everywhere, speed limits on database need to always be correct everywhere, no way to deal with temporary speed limits etc

Very easy to cast doubt on the integrity of it so not practical to prosecute based on it.

magicbastarder · 07-09-2023 10:06am

i think Red Silurian has a strange idea of how GPS works - connectivity good in dublin, but not in the country?

Red Silurian · 07-09-2023 10:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079479#Comment_121079479

Yeah I get that in theory GPS is 100% reliable anywhere in the world but in reality it leaves a lot to be desired

magicbastarder · 07-09-2023 10:17am

the main issue with GPS connectivity basically boils down to how much of the sky you can see. going under lots of tree cover can mess with it.

Jakey Rolling · 07-09-2023 10:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079301#Comment_121079301

RSA road traffic collision data can be found here.

The 5 year trend analysis report has a coarse breakdown of time of day.

Jakey Rolling · 07-09-2023 10:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079479#Comment_121079479

To be fair, there is a stretch of 3km directly north of Lismore that is in a canyon with dense tree cover, I've seen my GPS track go wonky when cycling through there. The bigger danger on that road are the tight bends and slippy surface at times due to detritus from the trees, and surface staying damp due to the shade and proximity to the river.

Norteño · 07-09-2023 10:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079306#Comment_121079306

You must be joking. It'll be barcodes on our wrists, next.

Padraig Mor · 07-09-2023 10:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078783#Comment_121078783

Ryan was out of the blocks well before Chambers on this, and essentially admits to cynically using recent deaths as a means to further his climate agenda. He's been harping on for ages about reducing speed limits to make a very slight reduction in the 0.089% of global CO2 emissions produced by Ireland and by God he wasn't going to miss the opportunity to exploit recent road deaths!

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41216833.html

"Minister for Transport Eamon Ryan has said that “one of the key responses” to address the increase in road fatalities was to look at speeding. He told RTÉ Radio One that this was part of the programme for government commitment to “review and reduce speed limits, where appropriate, to address both road safety issues and carbon emissions, and ensure greater compliance”

Red Silurian · 07-09-2023 10:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079629#Comment_121079629

Of course building better roads and improving the ones we already have would be good way to bring road deaths and carbon emissions down as well.

But the green party are all about the investment in public transport and cycling so that doesn't suit their agenda

Ardent · 07-09-2023 10:47am

This move is politically motivated - designed to save face and be seen to be doing something - and the laziest approach the Government could have taken to tackle the issue of road deaths. But what more would you expect from these morons currently in charge.

Timing belt · 07-09-2023 10:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079526#Comment_121079526

if you work on an average speed over 1km or two it doesn’t matter if a signal fails for a few 100 yards.

As I said in original post I don’t see it happening because of privacy but it is possible and would work on 99% of the road network.

Even if it was adopted and data only used in the Event of accidents it could change driving behaviour just knowing that this would happen.

breezy1985 · 07-09-2023 11:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075076#Comment_121075076

See 1,2,4 everytime I cycle on a country road and see 3 every day going to work. I would add another to that on the country roads.

5. Idiots who overtake on a blind bend or blind incline.

The only bit of the new legislation that will make a difference to me is 30kph city streets because at least there people have some fear of being caught.

The country roads are and will remain a free for all and from what I can see (could be wrong) it's the country drivers involved in most of these deaths.

stooge · 07-09-2023 11:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079537#Comment_121079537

Yes, very coarse, I'm sure they could go deeper. My main question though is whether the measures they are proposing to take now (blanket speed reduction) have taken this data into account. It does not seem like it

magicbastarder · 07-09-2023 11:25am

It's worth pointing out that even if speed is not the primary cause of an 'accident', that this means reducing speeds is of no benefit. Speed may not be the primary cause, but lower speeds could result in the collision being avoided entirely in the first place, and failing that, the severity of the collision being reduced.

Red Silurian · 07-09-2023 12:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079824#Comment_121079824

To play devils advocate here, was speeding the result of recent crashes in Clonmel and Cahir?

magicbastarder · 07-09-2023 12:04pm

result? or cause? you're asking the wrong person.

Timing belt · 07-09-2023 12:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079824#Comment_121079824

If people stick within the speed limits…. But people don’t because they know that outside of urban areas, motorways and main roads it is practically impossible to enforce as roads are to narrow for a speed van or Garda to stand on side of the road.

magicbastarder · 07-09-2023 12:07pm

my point had nothing to do with speed *limits*.

a rather obvious illustration. i am driving along an N road at 100km/h, at the limit. someone pulls out of a side road, without looking, in front of me, and i crash into them; say i'd dropped to 50km/h after emergency braking.

it's a simple no-brainer that if i'd been doing 80km/h instead, the chances of me avoding the collision entirely would have been improved, but even with the collision taking place, it would have been notably less severe. my point is that even though my speed had nothing to do with the cause of the collision, it has a significant effect on the outcome.

TedBundysDriver · 07-09-2023 12:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078909#Comment_121078909

What carnage? Road deaths are massively down compared to 20 years ago.

magicbastarder · 07-09-2023 12:20pm

a deeper dive into the stats than the bare number of fatalities would be interesting. have pedestrian deaths dropped at the same rate as car occupancy deaths? have pedestrian deaths dropped possibly because people are less likely to be out walking?

we know two large factors in the reduction of car occupancy deaths anyway - a massive falloff in drink driving, and safer cars (though that benefit is mainly for the occupants).

if, for example, people will prefer to drive rather than walk because it's safer to drive; yes, road deaths may be down. but that could be a reflection of roads being more dangerous for pedestrians now; so the figures could be counter-intuitive.

markodaly · 07-09-2023 12:24pm

As part of this initative, we should also seriously raise the fines for speeding.

At the moment the fine for speeding is a paltry €160.

In Australia, you have the following.

If you challenge a fine and go to court, but get a conviction that is a blanket $2200 fine.

That would soften people's cough a bit in relation to going over the speed limit.

Red Silurian · 07-09-2023 12:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080025#Comment_121080025

Yeah cause is what I obviously meant

I'll answer the question, they were killed by bad roads so that's 9 of the 127 deaths or 7% of the road deaths not caused by speeding and that's without anybody looking deeper into the other deaths

In fact lets make it easy, using google, can you find just 20 deaths caused by speeding this year?

topal · 07-09-2023 12:31pm

Speed limit reduction without enforcement is pointless.

It seems the only way people will slow down is if there is the possibility of a fine or damage to their vehicles (speed bumps, traffic calming etc.)

Sam Russell · 07-09-2023 12:31pm

There is a experiments test of average speed enforcement on a strip of the M7 near Nenagh that must have reported by now.

Why do they not erect gantries along all the motorways at regular intervals and have them check speed, motor tax, NCT, and insurance? Now if my speed is above the maximum allowed then a fine in the post. The same applies to any other offence detected.

Currently, the test strip keeps speed down between the two gantries. But if gantries further up are detecting average speed measured between any two gantries, there is no way to exceed the limit in any big way.

The same could apply to traffic lights, so driving through a red light becomes a little less likely. However, lights need to be sequenced correctly. Giving 30 seconds green followed by three minutes of red is just daft.

Widespread use of autodetection using cameras would make a huge difference to behaviour.

It might also increase the attraction of public transport.

magicbastarder · 07-09-2023 12:33pm

no, because the inquests likely haven't happened yet. i'm not going to pretend to possess knowledge of fatalities which you seem confident in doing.

but also; you seem to be responding to a different point, one i was not making. the post of mine you quoted stated that regardless of primary cause, slower speeds make it easier to avoid collisions or result in less severe collisions EVEN IF excess speed was not a cause.

Seth Brundle · 07-09-2023 12:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080148#Comment_121080148

What makes a road bad? Isn't it a pity that there is no way to navigate these bad roads when driving?

magicbastarder · 07-09-2023 12:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080127#Comment_121080127

i prefer my idea. within one week of being notified of an offence which results in penalty points, you must surrender your car for a number of days matching the number of points now accrued on your licence. so if you're caught speeding and that brings the number of points up to ten, you lose the use of your car for ten days.

many people can shrug off a €160 fine, many can't; so that's not a equitable way of levying a punishment. temporarily taking their car off them is more equitable.

07-09-2023 12:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080127#Comment_121080127

The day fine approach is a better option imho. Its based on your income and assigns X number of days of income to an offense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine

topal · 07-09-2023 12:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080165#Comment_121080165

automatic number plate detection (APNR) is in loads of places in the UK and the fines are timely and pointless to dispute.

Wishlist for APNR:

Bus lane abuse

Parking on footpaths

Timing belt · 07-09-2023 12:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080165#Comment_121080165

There are enough bridges to mount them on…but will this reduce accidents or deaths probably not because they are generally not happening on the motorway and when they do occur it’s a driver driving the wrong way, falling asleep at the wheel, stopping on the side of the motorway, driving to close to car in front etc.

now try and put average speed cameras down a country road that has multiple turn offs and on… you would need 10,000’s of cameras and as a result not an option. And it is on these roads the fatalities are generally happening on the motorway

the.red.baron · 07-09-2023 12:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121076429#Comment_121076429

that is mental, good to know, drive on

markodaly · 07-09-2023 1:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080198#Comment_121080198

That would be difficult to police.

We do what they do in Scandinavia, link speeding fines to one's Salary.

markodaly · 07-09-2023 1:06pm

I see a lot of commentary about enforcement options, but surely enforcement comes with a deployment of better tech like they have done in other countries.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/car-industry-news/2023/08/17/ai-cameras-that-can-spot-mobile-phone-use-prove-successful-in-trials#:~:text=The%20Acusensus%20system%20is%20equipped,were%20without%20a%20seat%20belt.

An issue though, is how to police rural roads which is very hard given we have so much of them. But this is where one could deploy ad-hoc speed cameras randomly and through the book at offenders.

magicbastarder · 07-09-2023 1:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080273#Comment_121080273

possibly. i was thinking that instead of them having to bring it to a yard somewhere, there could be a team who visit your house and clamp it in your driveway with an extra fancy secure clamp.

Jakey Rolling · 07-09-2023 1:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079306#Comment_121079306

Given that many newer cars have multiple built in cameras and accelerometers, I'd be wholly in favour of all data from these being available to Garda in case of a collision. So if you're diving like a muppet and cause a collison your are going to be found out. Would also lessen the instances where joint blame is apportioned by the insurance companies, where clearly one party is at fault. Would be cheap as chips to mandate that a all new vehicles have built in cameras.

Macy0161 · 07-09-2023 1:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080036#Comment_121080036

A motobike cop could easily enforce from a gate entrance or the commonly available trailer mounted APNR camera or from fixed cameras (as mentioned before - the cameras can be moved between fixed "boxes").

The only reason they aren't enforced is lack of gardai, and lack of political will/ pressure to use the camera technology that has been in use in most countries for decades.

Cookiemunster · 07-09-2023 1:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080355#Comment_121080355

How would that work if the car has multiple users? Or if the offending driver is not the primary (named) user of the car? You're are penalising the good driver for the crimes of the bad driver. It's not something that could work because of this.

magicbastarder · 07-09-2023 1:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080371#Comment_121080371

so be it. it might make the person who owns the car more circumspect about who they allow to use it/lend it to.

i would not lend my car to someone who i didn't think was a responsible driver. this would be an extension of that.

to partly address your concern, it could be structured so that the impounding happens only after a second offence, say.

it's certainly not a perfect solution, but if you want a means of punishment which will make people behave, i think this is as good as i can think of.

magicbastarder · 07-09-2023 1:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080414#Comment_121080414

what is the impact on me if i accrue nine points? or 11? essentially it's just financial. higher insurance premiums. unless you hit 12 points, the only impact is financial so until that point (pun unintended) it's still not equitable.

Timing belt · 07-09-2023 1:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080362#Comment_121080362

There are only something like 120 motorbikes in Ireland and most will be based in urban locations or used escorting wide loads and politicians etc…

Plus I would like to see them try and park a heavy bike like that off the Road in some boggy gateway.. would make for great viewing.

As for parking a trailer with APNR cameras the roads not wide enough…it would be a hazard because there wouldn’t be enough room for 2 cars on the road. Remember these are country roads not main roads in the country.

yes fixed cameras may be a possibility until harvest season comes and you have two tractors and trailer meet on the road and fixed camera is flattened.

I agree there aren’t enough Gardai or resources…would you be happy to pay an extra grand or two in taxes to address it and even then do you want them enforcing speed limits or addressing crime…

Cookiemunster · 07-09-2023 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080404#Comment_121080404

Best of luck getting that into law. It would be shot down straight away.

magicbastarder · 07-09-2023 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080485#Comment_121080485

no, never any points. i did once have to show my licence at a garda station after running a red. and the funny thing was the light went amber just as i was approaching it, i glanced in my rearview mirror and there was a car stupidly close behind me - maybe half a car length - so i made a quick decision not to stop (in case he rear ended me), so i reckon it went red just as i went through. turns out it was a cop car.

KrisW1001 · 07-09-2023 2:06pm

Mods, Any chance of moving this thread to Motoring? Speed enforcement policies aren't really about road infrastructure, and they degenerate quickly into shite...

whisky_galore · 07-09-2023 2:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080047#Comment_121080047

Typical shur tis grand response.

Do you think the recent high profile road deaths are acceptable in your opinion? That there was no way they could have been avoided?

TedBundysDriver · 07-09-2023 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080676#Comment_121080676

People should take personal responsibility for their actions. I have no idea what caused the recent road deaths.

Once again road deaths are way way down on that of 20 years ago.

corcaigh07 · 07-09-2023 2:33pm

How many extra cars are on the road as well? Knee jerk from the Government and yep, Eamon Ryan will not hesitate to use a pandemic or recent trend of road deaths to shape what he ultimately wants.

Gov Plans to reduce speed limits

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