Mens Rights Thread

Sn@kebite · 17-04-2023 2:55am

It's an adrenaline junkie system for female victimhood. The number of men in primary teaching has fallen from 30% to 15% since the 70s i.e it's going backwards yet they nitpick how women are hard done by. The simple issue is if a woman is promoted to principle they will ditch their potion for family and they and the school boards know this, so it's very likely it isn't male privilege. The idea that the lack of role models for boys isn't mentioned is showing the unabashed hypocrisy in the article.

The article also seems to have text and paragraphs spaced so much it appears suspicious. It's like author is just writing to feel aggrieved by the lack of female principles, and the author had absolutely nothing else to say. Pathetic.

iptba · 17-04-2023 1:16pm

Yes, a female friend who is a primary teacher mentioned she knows a number of women who did principal work for a while (I think some were acting up where it is a temporary arrangement) before giving it up.

iptba · 21-04-2023 2:01am

Sad

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2023/04/19/more-than-half-of-women-have-experienced-sexual-violence-during-lifetime-cso

Crime & Law

More than half of women have experienced sexual violence during lifetime - CSO

Nationwide survey also finds that 28 per cent of men have been victims of sexual violence

—-

Females are more likely to disclose than men, with 53 per cent of women telling someone they’ve experienced sexual violence, compared to 34 per cent of men.

===

“We need urgent action to tackle ongoing misogyny and the unwillingness of a large proportion of males to view females as equal human beings as the root cause of this violence.”

—

Minister for Justice Simon Harris said …

It is discussed as if the only perpetrators are male:

“No little baby boy is born an abuser. What happens actually in our society, what happens in our homes, what happens in our schools matters, and the zero tolerance strategy that we have, of course, rightly puts the pressure on us to do more as a government. And we’re up for that and we’re doing it.”

—

iptba · 21-04-2023 3:32am

‘Help! I’ve become my boyfriend’s mum’: The unstoppable rise of the manchild

https://www.independent.ie/style/sex-relationships/help-ive-become-my-boyfriends-mum-the-unstoppable-rise-of-the-manchild-42441337.html

I can't bring myself to read this but I suspect there is a good chance the same newspaper would be reluctant to publish a similar piece with the genders reversed.

cms88 · 21-04-2023 8:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120263533#Comment_120263533

It's actually mental how this is still being pushed.

A few years ago there was something on TV about this. John Waters, whatever your view on him, asked the question if women are actually interested in getting into politics why don't they run as Independents. The answer he got was it costs a lot to run as an Independent. That's ture but basically women have no issue running once someone else picks up the tab for them.

ancapailldorcha · 25-04-2023 4:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502156#Comment_120502156

Not great form to just dump a link without reading it.

Is there a similar trend for women who expect to be looked after?

iptba · 25-04-2023 8:17pm

My earlier comment (reply quoting isn't working for me):

‘Help! I’ve become my boyfriend’s mum’: The unstoppable rise of the manchild

https://www.independent.ie/style/sex-relationships/help-ive-become-my-boyfriends-mum-the-unstoppable-rise-of-the-manchild-42441337.html

I can't bring myself to read this but I suspect there is a good chance the same newspaper would be reluctant to publish a similar piece with the genders reversed.

OK, I have read the article now. I was put off by the term man child and the picture of Elon Musk in a baby's body just wearing a nappy and didn’t want to put myself through reading lots of misandristic comments.

It turns out to have some comments toward the end which balance out a lot of the negative comments about men

---

Last year, journalist Moya Lothian-McLean coined the term “romantic victimhood”, which refers to a tendency by some women to villainise the male half of a failed relationship. It’s characterised by the use of sweeping generalisations about an ex’s behaviour, allowing women to wallow in the idea that men are bad romantic partners and not much else.

Lothian-McLean argues that women see themselves as perpetual victims of men’s behaviour rather than sharing equal responsibility for a broken relationship. The manchild label has the same effect.

Mark Brooks, a male inclusion policy adviser, rejects the manchild label and sees it as part of a double standard when it comes to categorising men’s behaviour. He finds the label “odd and wrong” and says it is a “step backwards” from more inclusive and evolved conversations around gender. “Nobody would give a similar label to a woman,” he tells me. “It just doesn’t fit where we’re going as a society, and therefore shouldn’t be seen as an acceptable description.”

It feels easy to categorise our exes with a label or a finger-point, but it’s worth considering deeper issues at play – like “unresolved childhood experiences” or “a lack of positive role models” growing up, says Wasser. “As with any label, it’s crucial to remember that people are complex and multifaceted, and reducing someone to a single descriptor can be both unfair and unhelpful.”

—-

These are signs of a man child:

A glance at current relationship discourse will tell you that women are living in fear of the manchild. Venture onto TikTok and you will find relationship gurus warning of the “signs” you’re dating one.

These include a messy home, an inability to handle criticism, endless playing of video games, poor time management... the list goes on.

—-

I think heterosexual men and heterosexual women have on average different standards about their homes, with women having much higher standards. Women also seem willing to spend a lot of money on their homes and how they appear/are decorated. Some men may think time and money is better spent on other things. I don’t think one is not necessarily right just different. It also interesting how self-conscious women can be about their homes: they might not invite people in or over because they are embarrassed by it. Also they may do a specific clean if they are having people in/over.

I think heterosexual men spend more time than heterosexual women on average on video games. Again I don’t think one is necessarily right. I don’t think one is better morally for spending more or less time on them. Women may spend more time on other things like watching TV including soap operas, or in recent times on social media like Instagram. Certainly playing video games can be a problem if it is taking over people’s lives but some people can spend large numbers of hours watching TV, on social media, etc.

I’m not sure there is a clear gender difference in terms of handling criticism. Some people of both genders can lack to an extent in this regard.

Similarly with regard to time management.

What the article doesn't mention is that often men do more hours of paid work outside the home. So looking at just work within the home isn't a true reflection of what's going on in the relationship. Men will normally have to contribute their fair share if not more than 50% of a couple's joint spending.

And indeed if men become unemployed they seem to be dumped more often than women:

Unemployment Can Spell Divorce for Men, But Not Women

https://www.livescience.com/14705-husbands-employment-threatens-marriage.html

iptba · 10-07-2023 11:52pm

More men’s issues than men’s rights:

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/max-dickins-improv_men-are-you-lonely-how-your-workplace-could-activity-7082243029847142400-kkDX?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_io

WHY THE WORKPLACE MAY BE ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT FOR MALE FRIENDSHIPS

It was a great pleasure to be on this week's edition of the Financial Times 'Working It' podcast with Isabel Berwick. We spoke about many things, not least the question above.

😕 There is a male friendship recession.

👉 In the US, since 1990, there has been a fivefold increase in the number of men reporting that they have no close friends - from 3% to 15%.

👉 In the UK, a 2018 study by the Movember Foundation suggested things are even worse: one in three men asked could not name a single close friend.

Could one of the causes of the male friendship recession be the decline of the workplace as a social hub?

The workplace is increasingly not a great place to make and maintain friendships, especially since the post-pandemic rise of remote and hybrid-working.

👉 We are in the office a lot less.

👉 We are there at wildly inconsistent times.

👉 Big reduction in after and during work socialising and teambuilding events.

👉 Teams forming and reforming with faster and faster turnarounds.

👉 We switch jobs a lot and move around geographically frequently.

In short: we aren’t having the time and consistency of contact to build relationships that are not transactional at work.

🚸 Of course, there are upsides, notably flexibility – which is especially important for parents and those with caring duties.

And the decline of the workplace as a social hub should, in theory, affect both men and women equally…

However, there are reasons to believe it affects men more…

👉 Wider structural factors that make everyone lonelier may therefore affect men more, because they compound men’s comparative lack of social initiative and skill.

👉 Decades of research suggests than men’s friendships often revolve around work. We know, for example, that retirement is a bigger risk factor for loneliness in men compared to women.

👉The male social world is ‘club like.’ Men’s social style thrives around a shared activity or purpose, shared space, and generally in groups. Lose ‘the club’ – whatever that may be – and you often take away the scaffolding which holds up the relationships.

Beyond the workplace, this social scaffolding has been in steep decline across society – putting more pressure on the workplace as a social destination.

“Community centre-type environments – the church, the working men’s club, the Freemasons – they’ve always been here in some form or another, in all cultures, for time immemorial,” as evolutionary anthropologist Dr Robin Dunbar put it to me. “These kinds of communal activities have been quietly dying. We are cutting away the very environments that we need.”

🗣 The takeaway?

Male friendships probably need more institutional support than female friendships. The workplace is not just a place we go to earn a living – it is an important piece of social scaffolding.

📕 PB of Billy No Mates is out tomoz!

iptba · 18-07-2023 10:23pm

From May:

‘Woefully inadequate’ paternity benefit less than a third of weekly wage, ICTU report highlights

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/woefully-inadequate-paternity-benefit-less-than-a-third-of-weekly-wage-ictu-report-highlights/a1583823272.html

iptba · 23-07-2023 9:14pm

Sorry, Caitlin Moran – equality doesn’t mean making men more like women

Moran’s What About Men? is written in a patronising tone that seems to suggest it has only just occurred to her that men might have problems

https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/books/book-reviews/sorry-caitlin-moran-equality-doesnt-mean-making-men-more-like-women/a1609453486.html

“The tone of the book is extremely patronising, veering many times into full-on offensive. It’s like the feminist equivalent of white saviour complex: a woman spying a supposedly benighted people (four billion men) who don’t even know they need help, but here she is to solve their issues.”

“But although she starts by acknowledging various spheres in which men clearly have it worse than women (mental healthcare, educational outcomes, addiction, homelessness — and did anyone mention life expectancy?), most of the book focuses on issues that almost certainly are not what 90pc of men might think are genuinely important.”

“But she doesn’t appear to have any respect for them. “Men are basically dogs’,” she pronounces at one point. OK, most women have had experience with men who can act like that once in a while… but seriously? Personally, I adore dogs, but most men I know are pretty complex individuals — just like most women I know, actually.”

“How about the way it’s often implied that men are less capable as parents than women? How about how it’s still primarily men who are expected to fight and die for their country, as in Ukraine at the moment? How about the way men working as primary school teachers, carers and nurses are not treated as trailblazers for equality in traditionally female sectors, but often as quirky oddities of questionable masculinity? How many men want to cook or do housework without being told by their female partner that they’re not doing it the ‘right’ way? How many men get equal custody in a divorce, rather than it being assumed that the woman should be the primary caregiver?

How many women suddenly drop the equality when it comes to ‘manly’ chores like putting together furniture or fixing the boiler? Lastly,

how many women are prepared to hand over control of the thermostat and allow it to be set a temperature that suits their partner, rather than

them?”

One eyed Jack · 23-07-2023 10:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120888239#Comment_120888239

Unsurprisingly, it doesn’t occur to either of them that nobody actually needs feminism -

For all that I hated this book, Moran is right about one thing. Men do need feminism.

https://archive.ph/i3vwz

Reminds me of this clown (the one on the right of the video) saying the same thing, in an effort to promote Feminism -

https://youtu.be/vWUDQdiFB7A

Men don’t need Feminism; Feminism needs men. The author of that particular piece is also critical of what she calls the books “Feminist saviour complex”, and points out how it isn’t exactly rigorous that most of the research in the book comes from male friends and talking to her followers on Twitter… then goes on to introduce the same evidence herself in support of her own argument:

Perhaps the most frustrating thing about What About Men? is that it misses the chance to talk about a lot of things that do matter to men — and what we as women, as feminists, can do to address these issues. Just from my own (also, admittedly, non-scientifically rigorous) scan of some of my male friends and acquaintances, how about some of the following issues?

The article isn’t all bad, her comments towards the end about possession of the thermostat controls did get a laugh out of me at least, I knew what she was referring to 😂

https://time.com/5592353/office-temperature-study/?amp=true

Sn@kebite · 24-07-2023 7:13pm

Caitlin Moran has been trashing men and masculinity for years making a career out of it as many main stream feminists do (laura bates, Sarkeesian, laurie penny et. al.)

The thing is there is growing interest in male issues for example, if you've seen Dr. Richard Reeves he did a great TED talk on boys lagging in education and suicide rates. CNN also has discussions on male issues recently which is a new one.

To me what's happening is:

these grifter feminists recognize the negativity feminism has been spreading and are getting concerned as we see young males turning to more conservative governments, like Trump's supported outside capitol building. It is making a lot of people on the political left nervous. So if they don't mold their ways there could be great damage in the future.
As men start to talk and build out own orgs it becomes a threat to the funding/recourse monopoly these feminists have, remember they have millions pouring into their grievance projects. They want to mold so they can also represent male issues in a deceptive way to not have men's orgs competing for funding and to make sure these women's groups stay dominant in the narrative.

I don't see it as genuine activists being concerned with new male issues, even though there are many problems. Maybe I'm cynical but it's what I think. There's great discussions on reddit about all of interest on male issues all of a sudden.

iptba · 03-08-2023 10:58pm

Say ‘maaate’: New anti-misogyny campaign aimed at young men in UK divides opinion

Initiative by mayor Sadiq Khan draws ridicule from some but is praised for putting onus on men to restrain sexist behaviour

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/uk/2023/08/02/say-maaate-new-anti-misogyny-campaign-aimed-at-young-men-launches-in-london

The scene – cringey but not implausible – is the centrepiece of a new public campaign by the mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, to combat misogynistic attitudes among young men. Khan draws a direct causal link between low-level sexist comments among men and violent crimes against women.

“Violence against women and girls starts with words,” insists the office of the Labour mayor. Critics of this school of thought argue that low-level sexist comments may be stupid and unwelcome, but there is no reliable evidence to suggest they are the first step on a ladder that ends with sex crimes and the killing of women.

Not convinced this is the best use of public money and imagine a politician would be unlikely to run, say, an anti-misandry campaign aimed at young women.

ancapailldorcha · 04-08-2023 8:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937019#Comment_120937019

I live in London and I've no problem with it.

Is there a need for an anti-misandry campaign aimed at young women?

Sn@kebite · 04-08-2023 9:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120940608#Comment_120940608

I think this is a failure of the police to tackle crime in London and a failure of Khan. It's an attempt to offload the responsibility of this onto the public due to his failures as mayor. I doubt he'll be getting in again.

Im not sure if there's a need for an anti-misandry campaign specifically on the streets however there's no doubt that young men can face harrassment. The prejudices toward men are more in female dominated fields like teaching as in male teachers are dangerous around kids or prejudiced views in domestic abuse narratives spread by women in women's shelters and sociology depts. That's probably where more of the problems men face are than street abuse from women.

ancapailldorcha · 04-08-2023 9:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120940897#Comment_120940897

I disagree. Crime in London is due to a multitude of factors. That said, I'll be voting for Khan again as I think he's a decent mayor.

The post I quoted mentioned a street campaign against misandry but I see zero need for one. It'd be a complete waste of public funds.

iptba · 04-08-2023 11:49pm

Ballybrack was trending on Twitter/X last week with posts like this protesting against male asylum seekers. I think it argued that it is influenced by misandrous attitudes (and a willingness in some to act and/or express them publicly) and can result in men who have done nothing wrong not being provided with accommodation and, for example, having to sleep rough as many male asylum seekers have had to this year.

Mothers in Ballybrack, County Dublin say they are concerned for the safety of their community after learning that 60 male asylum seekers are to be moved into the area.

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1684938052408315905?s=20

Sn@kebite · 05-08-2023 6:25am

Ancapaildorcha. It woukd be biased for me to say khan is good or bad as im not in london. From other people i know in london hes not very good but then again politicians aren't usually very good.

As for the campaign for men yes it would be silly on the street. But i think its possible Khans maaate one may be a waste also as it may not catch on or when abuse takes place the police wont act or abusive men dont walk in groups with men who are good.

ancapailldorcha · 05-08-2023 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120941595#Comment_120941595

We can take the Politics elsewhere, agreed.

As for the Maaaate campaign, time will tell. I've seen a few of these campaigns now so they must be working to some degree. It's not a magic solution by any means and there are serious issues with policing here which are beyond the remit of this thread.

iptba · 26-08-2023 2:15pm

"Anne Enright: ‘Male critical culture has become quite defensive and sour’. The author on her new novel, The Wren, The Wren, pretending to be a poet and the ‘male nastiness’ Sally Rooney encountered"

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/2023/08/26/anne-enright-male-critical-culture-has-become-quite-defensive-and-sour

"I think in the deep past, you had to be sort of wonderfully collaborative with the male ego."

"She clarifies that she’s referring to the Anglosphere, and cites as an example some of the “male nastiness” that Sally Rooney encountered."

-----

I don't read fictional books these days and generally don't comment online about any fiction so I'm not been defensive about myself.

But in general, I have to wonder whether we would read equivalent comments with the genders reversed e.g. "the female ego", "female nastiness", etc. in the Irish Times.

iptba · 31-08-2023 8:30pm

I just came across the following by chance:

"a member of the Women’s Caucus in Fingal County Council."

https://www.finegael.ie/our-people/local-election-candidates/dublin/fingal/castleknock/siobhan-shovlin/

My guess is there is no Men's Caucus.

I would also guess that there would likely be a furore if one was set up.

iptba · 31-08-2023 10:56pm

Just saw this piece of data from the 2022 census

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/over-half-a-million-adults-still-living-with-parents-census-figures-show/a95128470.html

Almost 220,000 families had one parent in 2022, including 186,487 one-parent mother families and 33,509 one-parent father households.

iptba · 06-09-2023 12:31pm

Colman Noctor: Children need to see more male teachers in primary school

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/parenting/arid-41219287.html

IRELAND has one of the highest percentages of female primary teachers in the EU, at 85.8%.

[..]

American education policy academic Seth Gerehson conducted a study that followed 106,000 primary school-aged students through to adulthood and found that boys did better when they had a male teacher, and girls did better with a female teacher.

---

Also mentions the following:

Risks of working with kids

Many colleagues who work in adult mental health say they would never move to child and adolescent mental health because the risks of working with children are too high. This is also feedback I hear from male student nurses.

The ’risks’ they refer to are claims of inappropriate sexual behaviour. Many males working with children have to be hypervigilant about protecting themselves from allegations.

While this is understandable and appropriate, it is an anxiety-inducing component of the role which might deter some potential candidates from opting for these roles.

Like men working in children’s mental health services, perhaps male primary school teachers are also concerned about the risk of being accused of inappropriate sexual behaviour.

cms88 · 07-09-2023 7:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075898#Comment_121075898

It's funny how we never seen any taxpayer funded campaigns to get more men into teaching, in the same way it seems every other sector has it for females.

Sn@kebite · 07-09-2023 7:41pm

@iptba There are alot of articles in newstalk over the last few years. The audio interviews are good imo but never cover everything.

I really recommend you listen to the audio of these articles:

May 2022 https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-newstalk-breakfast/why-is-there-still-such-a-lack-of-male-teachers-in-the-classroom

May 2023 https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-lunchtime-live/how-can-we-make-primary-school-teaching-more-attractive-to-men

May 2023 https://www.newstalk.com/news/teaching-needs-to-be-a-more-attractive-profession-for-men-1464752

May 2023 https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-the-hard-shoulder/why-we-have-so-few-male-teachers-in-irish-schools

May 2023 https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-newstalk-breakfast/new-campaign-to-encourage-males-to-chose-primary-teaching

Some of them may or may not overlap in audio. Newstalk seems to talk about it every year or so. The number of men in teaching has been declining for decades now.

@cms88

That would be seen as helping the "oppressor class" or helping the "privileged group" under these left wing narratives. Helping boys in school or helping them choose teaching as a career will be deemed as sexist by feminist (and female teachers who usually are feminists) as boys cannot and do not face imbalanced due to being male.

iptba · 13-09-2023 8:49pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/0911/1404622-cso-gender-balance-survey/

“But the data on the number of females at Chief Financial Officer level was less encouraging, falling to 25.7% this year from 28.1% in 2021, and 29.7% in 2019.”

RTE editorialising: decreasing women in CFO levels is not encouraging while increasing would be encouraging.

“She said that gender equality on a worldwide frame brings value, but it must be applied to the top tables and not just across organisations.”

Having more women on boards or in top positions is not equivalent to gender equality. It could be an indication of men being discriminated against.

—-

"From our perspective at Employflex and talking to women every day who approach us seeking flexible work, we know that women are burnt out and are leaving senior roles, particularly mothers who are experiencing the motherhood penalty, while trying to juggle it all," Ms O'Reilly said.

She cautioned that companies who are not open to flexibility in the workplace are at a high risk of losing these experienced women.

"Many women feel they cannot ask for flexibility as this will negatively impact their career trajectory and also the fact their male colleagues generally do not avail of flexible work practices such as reduced hours, remote work or take their parental leave," she said.

—

This is dealing with the likely biggest factor or one of the biggest factors in gender differences at top levels. Though whether women should get preferential treatment is debatable.

A big issue with a topic like this is few are likely to publicly (e.g. on RTE) argue against the push for more women in top positions so there is an unbalanced discussion.

cms88 · 14-09-2023 7:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106723#Comment_121106723

imo and i think of this for men as well, but te whole world shouldn't stop just because someone has kids.

On the point it's another example to women getting preferential treatment yet it'll never be spoken about like that. In fact i'm surprised it's not being made out that men are the ones somehow getting the preferential treatment.

iptba · 15-09-2023 12:34pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/environment/climate-crisis/2023/09/14/feminist-and-community-groups-join-forces-in-launching-climate-justice-campaign/

Minister for the Climate Eamon Ryan: "We know globally that women and children are the most impacted, but have the least responsibility, for the climate devastation we are now seeing almost daily"

When was this ever accepted with regard to women? It may be true or may not. Women tend to go through more clothes but also do a lot of other consumer spending buying lots of products and getting rid of older items that may still function/not be broken but are no longer new.

Also in general I don't recall any minister at least in recent times saying anything like "We know globally that men and children are the most impacted, but have the least responsibility, for X". I think that would likely cause a furore.

Another extract from the article:

The climate emergency is a feminist issue with women, girls and other marginalised groups disproportionately affected by it in Ireland and globally, the National Women’s Council of Ireland (NWCI) has said.

cms88 · 17-09-2023 6:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112943#Comment_121112943

Interesting because who's most likely to be park outside a school in their Range Rover to pick up the kids....

iptba · 19-09-2023 5:08pm

I previously mentioned with all the DNA testing, it’s going to be interesting to see cases where the wrong father was assigned. A relative of mine has recently told me of one such case of a man who is distantly related finding this out: he wasn’t connected to anyone on his father’s side. Also he said his uncle was also in the same situation.

Mens Rights Thread

Comments

Nationwide survey also finds that 28 per cent of men have been victims of sexual violence