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FRA vs NZ - Match d'ouverture de la coupe du monde de rugby 2023

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,978 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Foster sounding like Borthwick at this stage



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭fitz


    Why? They were improved during the RC, but I've seen nothing since the NZ tour last year to show that we won't be able to dominate them the way we did in the second/third games of that tour. Each of these losses makes it harder for them from a confidence perspective. Their discipline and set piece is still a major issue that I just don't see them solving in a few weeks. They just don't have the players imo.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Relax. The confidence online means nothing to the team. We've already heard them say that they're taking the game seriously and it's one game at a time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Amping it up, like France did there and New zealand tried to do, is something I don’t feel we do well. Things have to go our way and to our liking to win games.

    France are my favorites due to depth and how they turn it on when the chips are down

    I genuinely hope we can do the same as it’s the best chance we’ve ever had at taking this thing home!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    He was average at best compared to his normal level. But he will only get better.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Agreed! I suppose we could say his “bad”game is a great game for any other scrum half.



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭fitz


    Amping it up like we did when everything went wrong against Scotland during the 6N? Or in the second half against England for the GS decider? Or even when playing a scratch side against Samoa in awful conditions during the warm ups? I don't know what games you've been watching, but this Ireland team are more than capable of upping the gears when they need to, and have consistently shown they can.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,494 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,947 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Conversion not awarded after all…. Confusing.



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭fitz


    Who cares? That's 4 years ago, and NZ are in a much worse place than they were then.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,605 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Except we didn't have a catastrophic collapse before this tournament, did we?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,769 ✭✭✭Dillonb3


    New Zealand looked really short on ideas with their bench.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,494 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    100%.

    To be judging teams that Ireland "can beat" when Ireland haven't played yet is a little over confident.

    Either team that played tonight would be more than a tight game for Ireland in the KO phases



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,707 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    Im in shock at the lack of replays of key moments in the game...

    NZ would have had their arses handed to them even more if it was officiated correctly...

    It seemed anything that would contradict the referees original decision wasnt replayed....

    Very unusual and it will be interesting to see if it continues....

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,302 ✭✭✭All_in_Flynn


    Great spectacle even if it was riddled by mistakes.

    Not sure I've ever seen Ardie so quiet. Jordie a big loss. They become too predictable without him.

    We need to talk about Peyper. He's a complete liability.

    New Zealand are there for the taking but I'd fancy us against that France side too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,561 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    An English* display by France today. They kept their shape after a spectacular try and despite looking knackered at 40 minutes gradually overpowered the opposition.

    *when they were beating us over the years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123



    Scotland and Samoa won’t be challenging for this World Cup. The fact we had to “amp it up” to scrape past Samoa in the rain(something we get here in Ireland most of the time) is exactly what I’m talking about.

    Im giving my opinion only on it if yours is admirable performances against teams that have played 13 games since the last World Cup counts for something then im okay with that.

    I hope we batter France when it comes our turn to play them but based on what I saw tonight we are going to struggle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,818 ✭✭✭Eoinbmw


    Some team will get badly screwed by this new approach!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    I'm 2019 they hadn't just won a Grand Slam. In fact they'd had a poor 6N. They also hadn't had a series win in NZ the previous summer. This Ireland team may not win the World Cup, but they're not the teams of the past.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    I wonder is this a way to avoid giving out all the yellow cards and red card that have marred the game - there was a late hit on Ramos also and it was not mentioned at all. Strange. Not sure how I feel about the bunker system either must be nerve wracking for the player waiting.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Was there a question about the second New Zealand try possibly being a forward pass also?



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,915 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Definitely a deliberate move from world rugby. I think they have strong control over what is shown in tv replays. Cuts down the questioning of officials performance post game. Also cuts out there possibility of local directors influencing decisions



  • Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭MaddChris


    The TMO looked at it and said it was all good. You could hear his voice telling Peyper before the conversion was taken, for what it's worth.



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭fitz


    You're ignoring the fact that the Samoa side wasn't anything close to our starting side.

    France struggled against Scotland a few weeks ago, and yet we dealt with them away with catastrophic circumstances. If you want to ignore the level of consistent performance this Ireland team has shown, go ahead, but your opinion seems based on past trauma more than what's happened in the last 2 years. I get that trauma though, Ireland collapses at RWCs have done that to us all..but there's little to suggest that's likely with this team.

    France will be a challenge for sure, but I think we have their number tbh, but that's a match that could go either way. NZ, still a challenge, but I just don't think they have the players, form, or mental strength at the moment for us to be too fearful of them. Moments of magic aside, I don't see where NZ will get scores against us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    An unintended consequence of the bunker system is we now have referees almost afraid to give a straight red, even when it's very obvious. They'll just give a yellow every time and let the bunker upgrade if necessary, which was never the intention.

    It will give those who don't want to make the big call a cop out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,561 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Is there any data to suggest that teams which don’t have as much time together training as our lads do, e.g. Argentina, Samoa, improve more as the WC progresses?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Yes - there is a lot of past trauma to be fair 🤣

    Depth is the worrying thing that stood out to me in the Samoa game, those are the guys we will be calling on when the sh1t hits the fan. Now Samoa could just have been really good and really lucky and maybe it’s the wake up call we needed and luckily got at the right time.

    forcing sexton through games, sticking with Murray booting the ball away when it’s not working and lacking imagination all fears that keep me up at night.

    sometimes I wake up at night screaming “Argentina nooooooo….” Then again it’s a welcome respite from the Japanese debacle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,631 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Lets call a spade a spade here.

    Ian Foster isnt cut out to be a head coach of a Tier 1 rugby side, neither is Borthwick but that hasnt been fully proven yet, it will be within the next 12 months though.

    Fair play to their unions for appointing them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    I suppose it keeps viewers like me who turn off when a red card is shown early an extra 10 mins to hang around too.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lbj666




  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭fitz


    Someone posted a video in the last couple of days in one of these threads about the data supporting cohesion being a big factor in success... Didn't get a chance to watch the full thing, but interesting stuff:

    https://youtu.be/dH7WGZNQ31Q?si=o0SC0jRhky_kNNeX



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    French errors kept NZ in it. But the total dominance up front told.

    NZ are very ordinary, we need to take that into account with regards our wins in 2022. Yes we beat France in the Spring and I hope we bring that form into the WC.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,561 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    On the bright side…NZ made some lovely kicks, e.g. the cross-kick for the try and multiple chips behind the French back line. France’s fitness was first rate. They tackled their hearts out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭ersatz


    I watched a NZ doc about the fallout from the Irish series and then redemption when the team went to SA and won in Ellis Park which saved Foster’s job. Interviews w Ardie, Cane, Smith and a few others talked about rallying around the coach and supporting him to the point where immediately after arriving back in NZ the whole team met the union boss to argue for fosters retention. Admirable loyalty but nowhere did anyone talk about WHY Foster should be retained other than loyalty. It was obvious that the players felt responsible bauble and guilty that foster was getting fired because they hadn’t delivered.

    Fair play to them but you’d hope at that stage someone in the room would say, hang on, maybe a new coach would help. Literally nothing about him being a good coach.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Sanjuro


    Using the Samoa game for any argument for or against the progress or lack there of of this Irish team is largely pointless. It was a scratch team. If we were forced to put that team out against any tier one team, we're goosed before the game begins, so there's no point in even bringing it up.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭ersatz


    NZ aren’t consistently good like they used to be but are still capable of beating anyone on a day. They just won the RC fairly convincingly, got pumped in twickenham and again today but they’ll still hand out dune bearings in this comp. Irelands series win was impressive for coming back after that first test. Going ahead and then being comprehensively demolished like that is hard to recover from but they did.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I agree wholeheartedly.

    I'm sick of the same rubbish every 4 years. We never got past the quarter final and didn't get to the QF in 1999 and 2007. We have ZERO history in this competition.

    I'll be accused of wanting Ireland to lose, being negative etc. I want Ireland to do well, but one game at a time.

    SA are a big worry. They're huge men in their pack with a reserve pack equally as good. Add in injuries and cards and those variables make it silly to make predictions with confidence.

    On to Romania tomorrow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,605 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    They also have pretty poor halfbacks, likely missing their best center, and have struggled to create scoring opportunities when they opposition doesn't gift them penalties



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But they can bully us. And dealing with them in an Autumn International is different than a WC. 3/7 World Cups entered won. They perform well in this competition. Even after Japan caught them on the first day out in 2015 they got to the semi and lost by 2 pts to the ABs.

    The way we look on Scotland for 20 years, that we can dominate them, I'm sure they feel similarly to us, when it really counts. See what team we have by that game and how we're going. If we lose a few first choice forwards, like pre Argentina in 2015, it's going to be very difficult.

    I prefer keeping the head down and being really cautious and focused on every game. We haven't earned the right to be in any way cocky at WCs. Scotland, 1991, Wales 1987 and 2011, even got to semi finals.

    Edit: I'm a huge Ireland fan, my first memories were as a 5 year old when we won the 1982 Triple Crown. I'm not WUM ing or any rubbish. Just want cool heads.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lbj666


    Gone are the days where if you bend but don't break against them you'll still more than likely lose and less teams are breaking now. Of course they can beat anyone on their day especially Ireland but they need upsets in other games in their favour to win it out a this rate..beating both France and SA enroute looks beyond them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 704 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Pass to Telea was fine. What officials missed was how Papalii entered the ruck from the side, clearing Villiere who has hands on the ball. TMO should, because a score resulted, have reviewed. Tom Foley under instructions not to intervene ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,546 ✭✭✭typhoony


    With SA the reality is that what they lack in skills they can make for in power with which they should be able to control the game against us. Playing them in a WC is very different challenge to any other time



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,561 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    That’s interesting - completely different to the lines I come out with about the importance of individual talent..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,605 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    They've also benefited from some soft draws too. They weren't particularly good in the last WC. They struggled past an average Wales team, and played a great game against England.

    They're a good team, but I don't fear us playing them. We've beaten them plenty of times and were a terrible pass by Paddy Jackson away from winning a series there. No team has physically dominated us under Farrell, and I don't see it starting now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Delighted to France win! Still think that they're the team to beat.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They won the last WC. They did what we had to do. Playing them in a WC is a different kettle of fish.

    As Mayo are to winning All Irelands in football we are to achieving in Rugby World Cups. You couldn't have confidence in us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Lucy8080


    Any one else think that N.Z. have not adjusted to the new rules/T.M.O. observation that applies to the modern game ,in the last few years? I would back them as favourites to take a card ,in a game, over any other international side.

    The dark arts of old / officialdoms mesmerisation by the jersey-those days are gone for the all blacks. They are struggling to handle the new dispensation., I believe that they will at least give up a yellow, if not a red, against any top 5/6 team. I think outside the top six they are still as likely to fcuk up with at least a yellow but maybe get away with it on the scoreboard.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Jermaine Weak Somewhere


    No, they're just not good enough. France will win the World Cup.



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭Iamabeliever


    There seems to be very little squad depth in their forwards IMO. That's why I never rated them to win the WC. Retallick, frizell, Lomax to come back prior to the QF could be telling but at this I'd back Ireland to squeeze them up front.



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭Iamabeliever




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