Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Podge_irl · 10-09-2023 2:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121092552#Comment_121092552

The reports you read are incorrect so. Earls was just about ok, but would be a potential liability against SA or Scotland. The man deserved his 100th (and subsequent) cap and deserved to travel. but the idea that this "isn't the last we have seen of him" bar injury is silly. He has no hope of being in the 23 absent a couple injuries.

McCloskey hasn't played in this tournament yet either, doesn't mean I can't say Aki is a better 12 at the moment.

None of this is a criticism of the guy's career, which is stellar.

fitz · 10-09-2023 3:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121092552#Comment_121092552

Ah,c'mon now, there's no agenda. Earls is a ligind. It's not an attack to say he wasn't great, and putting the blame for the try on Sexton when Earls got his positioning so wrong smacks way more of an agenda.

Was the kick the right option? Maybe not. But Earls got on the wrong side of his man, and that left a gaping hole. A player of his experience shouldn't be making that mistake. He did his best to make up for it throughout the game and had some good influences but made a couple of other mistakes cause he was forcing it imo, but it wasn't a performance he'll want to remember. Doesn't matter, it was not impactful, didn't really cost us anything.

I will say, that backheel though....sublime.

Jump_In_Jack · 10-09-2023 3:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121092596#Comment_121092596

The kick wasn’t great it sat up between their winger and fullback, Earls did his job to hunt the kick, the other winger blocked his access to the ball and there was no cover behind him. Blaming the winger for that error is scapegoating the wrong player, dare I say it, with a clear agenda.

mun1 · 10-09-2023 3:11pm

So the pile on for Earls has gone from “dog sh1t”, “charitable pick”, “he’s a ligind” “just about ok” “sexton made a poor kick, but earls should have covered” .

BTW I’m not for a minute saying earls had a great game , but the pile on for non leinster players is appalling from the usual punters on here.

For instance, i think JPG had a poor first 5 mins , but so did everyone else , so i dont start calling anyone dogsh1te.

i will call out pile ons on any Ireland player when i read it , regardless of club, as they’re the lowest from of scuttery and have no place on any discussion forums

Podge_irl · 10-09-2023 3:14pm

Saying Tonga will be the last we see of Earls is not a "pile on". Absent a couple injuries it is just reality.

edit: I will say it was a fairly flippant comment. But it's still true. For a guy whose career looked over after the injury in SA he has done exceptionally well. But we are struggling for depth in the back 3 and it is a concern.

10-09-2023 3:25pm

I don't think Earls was particularly bad. Just maybe time is catching up on him.

He'll be 36 during this WC. Christophe Dominici played on the wing at 35 in 2007. I can't recall any older wingers than Keith? A pity Stockdale didn't push on and I suppose Larmour.

A good squad man is a huge asset. Like Quinny in the day.

fitz · 10-09-2023 4:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121092624#Comment_121092624

He got shepherded the wrong side, blaming the kicker for that is a big reach. I don't really care...he should have done better, but it was just a well taken opportunity by Romania.

Earls wasn't great, but he wasn't terrible as some have said. He's deserving of his spot in the 33, but he's unlikely to feature after Tonga unless there's injuries. I don't think any of these statements are controversial or harsh, or an attack, or a pile-on.

Some people need to stop being so defensive. The pigeons will come in with all sorts of outrageously critical comments during the match. They're easy to spot...ignore them and the balance of regular posters on here are not too far apart in their assessment of the game. Our biggest (only?) defensive lapse involved Earls, the fact that we're talking about mistakes that happened in the first couple of minutes, and have little enough else to be worried about is a win imo. No injuries, and we were absolutely ruthless, so we're picking on minor things. Talk of "agendas" though...give me strength....

Nigzcurran · 10-09-2023 4:54pm

What result suits us best between SA/Scotland?

Interested Observer · 10-09-2023 4:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121092951#Comment_121092951

A draw.

Clegg · 10-09-2023 5:28pm

Wrong thread

Jump_In_Jack · 10-09-2023 5:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121092951#Comment_121092951

Scotland win, as then we can knock out SA and relax for a dead rubber in the last round.

bilston · 10-09-2023 6:08pm

Ireland win by 80 points and the last page includes discussion on who the worst Irish player was...

pickarooney · 10-09-2023 6:28pm

Every training session for the next few weeks should be non stop lineouts. We're not going to get any change out of the SA scrum so we need to at least learn to secure our own ball.

connachta · 10-09-2023 6:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121093398#Comment_121093398

Physically we can send back saffers to thier studies way more than Scotand did today. I (and Sheehan, Porter, Doris, McCarthy Ryan) shouldn't be afraid to take up the challenge

Clegg · 10-09-2023 6:47pm

South Africa's physicality doesn't bother me as much as their blitz defence. They were up so fast into Russell's passing lane and took away all his options. He couldn't make that pull back pass he's so effective at and he started forcing things out of desperation. He was almost intercepted on three separate occasions. It was an incredibly effective tactic and took Russell out of the game.

Ireland's attack is at its best when we have forwards and backs making those pull back linking passes. South Africa will be looking at employing that same effective blitz and neutralising our strengths.

AbusesToilets · 10-09-2023 7:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121093478#Comment_121093478

Hard carries to compress the line and quick ball from the deck are key. Scotland were glacial, and SA did a good job slowing ball down to boot.

Have to think Catt has been focusing on how to deal with the SA blitz for the last year.

pickarooney · 10-09-2023 7:06pm

A game for Ross Byrne to sit 10m back and dink balls over the rush defence

molloyjh · 10-09-2023 7:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121093478#Comment_121093478

Scotland also showed how some of the things that we do can cause South Africa trouble. Some of the delayed passing in the first half almost got them some big line breaks. We’re better than them. We have better shape, more options off that shape and better execution. Plus we won’t fade out of the game the way that Scotland did for a lot of that second half.

South Africa don’t score much. So we don’t need to score much to beat them. We absolutely have the players and the game to do it.

Clareman · 10-09-2023 7:14pm

The SA blitz defence is scary fast but also there should be chances. The 13 sprints so far up everytime there has to be space behind him. They are also very close to being late a lot of times.

ersatz · 10-09-2023 7:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121093593#Comment_121093593

It will be fascinating to see how Farrell counteracts that defensive speed. Scotland walked right into it and didn’t come out. Cross field kicks, dinks and kicks into the shooters channel are all things we’ve seen well executed from Ireland in the past. Hansens midfield kicking comes to mind.

earls wasn’t great but laying the try on him is unfair, he went outside as an attack to chase the grubber, actually sexton ended up in no man’s land, both chasing the kick and sliding into earls defensive spot, he had the inside line but was poorly positioned and didn’t get close to the Romanian player. Earls footwork to lay up the grubber for Keenan before Beirnes try was class. If we don’t ptogress it won’t be because of earls.

molloyjh · 10-09-2023 7:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121093653#Comment_121093653

We’ve already seen what we’re trying to do. We’ve been looking to delay passing to invite defenders up before getting in behind them, we’ve looked for the double offload from a pod carry (front of the pod takes contact, offloads to the outside pod option who the offloads to the back who has swept out from the boot), variations on our pod shape (one example is against England when we had Ryan in the boot instead of a back with Aki sweeping from out to in as the support runner) as well as the likes of the kicks in behind from 10 (like Crowleys yesterday). Add to that our ability to go long wide or cross field and we have a lot of options there. We just need to pick the right ones and the right times.

Clareman · 10-09-2023 7:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121093653#Comment_121093653

JGP will be huge for us, get to the breakdown quickly and get the ball out quickly and SA will be constantly pinged, they got away with it today I think because they were "trying" to get back onside and Scotland weren't ready to play either. I wouldn't be giving up possession too quickly against them by kicking the ball away, it's alot easier attack than defend in that heat and at the end of the first half I thought SA were blowing a bit.

ersatz · 10-09-2023 7:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121093719#Comment_121093719

Yeah, Scotlands best period was that second quarter when they forced some mistakes from SA. But in the second half things got very comfortable for sa, their linespied was working and they could just pile on pressure onto Scotland’s ball and force turnovers. Agreed Ireland’s speed and accuracy is the difference in making that a lot harder for SA.

Clareman · 10-09-2023 7:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121093758#Comment_121093758

South Africa are probably the best team in the world at adjusting at half time, they probably had disected how Scotland were playing and adjusted to exploit it, they also seemed to bring on another team as water carriers about 5 minutes in, no doubt some of them had messages to share.

Mr Disco · 10-09-2023 8:36pm

Against Saffers a Case for McCarthy starting 2nd row and Beirne at 6 with O’Mahony/Conan/Henderson on bench. Perhaps 6/2 split. Crowley & Murray would be adequate cover for backs

ersatz · 11-09-2023 5:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121094069#Comment_121094069

No centre cover against SA is v risky.

Mr Disco · 11-09-2023 5:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095382#Comment_121095382

Crowley covers 12 and aki 13

ersatz · 11-09-2023 5:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095383#Comment_121095383

Right. I would not like to see Crowley at 12 against SA for very long. He’s a great player and solid defender but he has never played a test match at 12, and I’m not sure he’s played champions cup at 12. Wont happen.

aloooof · 11-09-2023 6:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095387#Comment_121095387

Started 3 of the group games there, 2 against Nothampton and 1 against Toulouse.

Buer · 11-09-2023 7:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095383#Comment_121095383

Crowley has never played 13, to my knowledge. Nor has he played anything more than a few minutes at 12 for Ireland.

The huge risk with a 6/2 split for Ireland is that we have an outhalf who is a very strong possibility to go off at any point with an injury. If Ringrose went off, it would be Aki to 13 (where he's far less comfortable), Crowley to 12 (can play there but very little test experience) and the old man at 10 for 80 minutes. It you're going to try it out, the biggest game Ireland have had in 4 years isn't the time to roll the dice.

It works for other nations because they have more flexibility throughout their team. Macalou for France has played wing for SF in the past and they have Ramos with significant outhalf experience on the field as well as Dupont. Both of their centres have started on the wing in test matches too.

SA have Le Roux and Willemse in their 23. Le Roux plays outhalf in Japan. Willemse has started at 10 and 15 for SA and has played centre at club level. They can bring Smith as one of their 6 forwards (150 caps for SA Sevens and completely comfortable on the wing if needed).

If anyone got injured for SA or France, they've ready made options to slot in and be comfortable at test level as well as forwards who can potentially play wing if needed. If certain guys got injured for us, we'd be immediately on the backfoot and we'd be totally screwed if we copped a second injury in the backline.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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